New Manager...

[Vive_La_Villa]

9 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

The counter argument to this is not throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I think the club should do what they think is best for the club. If they think Smith would get us up at the first attempt then he should stay. 

Whether a manager should keep his job should be about what he can do in the future, not what he's done in the past. Don't sack Smith because he failed in the Prem IF he can gets us up next season.

 

And by the way this works the other way. We also shouldn't keep Smith if we get promoted next season IF we think he'll get us relegated again. We shouldn't give a manager a crack at the Prem just for the sake of rewarding him for getting us promoted. He should keep his job if he's the right man to lead the club forward.

If we do not think he will ever be the man to take us forward in the Premier League then we should make a change at the end of the season whether we get relegated or not.

[Stevo985]

3 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

If we do not think he will ever be the man to take us forward in the Premier League then we should make a change at the end of the season whether we get relegated or not.

Exactly.

[Demitri_C]

10 hours ago, Villaphan04 said:

voted for Jardim, as someone who I personally would like and also seems reasonably attainable. 

Also, does JT have the actual badges to be given the job full time? IIRC, that issue arose around the time that Bruce was sacked and that he couldn't be considered for those reasons. 

Jardim is my number one chouce to be honest. He is a big name and reminds me of nuno

[Demitri_C]

9 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I didn't vote because it will be none of those options.

Who do you think the list would be ?

[Jareth]

Every manager who fails can point to events, luck, injuries, the cards they were dealt when they came in etc etc - but for Smith I was concerned at the start of the season when he was given all the support the new owners possibly could have given him within FFP limits - because he could have no excuses going forwards. Would other managers dealt the same hand performed better? It's possible. But then switching it up now really does mean starting again, it could be an error - Smith is good in the championship. If there's no obvious new candidate, then I'm a bit cautious on a change.

[Vive_La_Villa]

22 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Jardim is my number one chouce to be honest. He is a big name and reminds me of nuno

He won the league with Monaco which whilst a great achievement that was one hell of a Monaco team he managed. Not sure how much involvement he has in assembling that team. 

[Adbo9]

12 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

It's not that "they aren't his players", it's that they're crap, and cost twice their value.

If Suso stays at Aston Villa past July I'll be very sad because we're totally ****. Don't want to think about the damage he'll do wasting the Grealish money. He's already lumbered us with plenty we can't sell for what we paid despite that being number 1 on the brief of his signings.

I don't know what Smith is meant to do given a choice of six players and they're all shit? We needed an entire squad. We had to sign minimum 10 players. He couldn't say no to everyone. He plucked Engels who he remembered from Brentford scouting the options for centre half were so bad!

Smith could easily get sacked, and yes, you can certainly argue he deserves it. He's been poor this season. It's likely he's not here when we start next season IMO.

Suso however should be thrown out the back door into the bins and told never to darken our doorway again. 

I cant disagree with most of what youre saying

 

but for example, id say Smith was a major component in signing Mings, Targett, Konsa, Hause and Engels as theyre players he knew, played for him previously or wanted to sign previously...…………. that's best part of £60M on defenders - and the sum total of it all is theyre the worst defence in the country...……. 

 

That isn't all Suso 

 

Smith needs to take a massive share of the criticism for me...…………… 

[Adbo9]

15 hours ago, Mjvilla said:

Literally the opposite of that is happening in this forum. He takes no praise for when it went well last year and this forum is full of criticism for him right now. Ive even done quite a comprehensive post on this exact matter, because it's a frustration of mine, but literally opposite to what you said!!

Im not reading it that way myself to be honest

[Zatman]

25 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Jardim is my number one chouce to be honest. He is a big name and reminds me of nuno

In what way is he like Nuno except being Portuguese. Seems to be a lot different style of play

[Stevo985]

30 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Who do you think the list would be ?

No idea. 

But I think the only person on this list who would be in with a chance is Terry.

[peterw]

for all those that voted for Dyche, you do remember that he was relegated in Burnley's first season in the Prem, went down, came back stronger and Burnley have looked decent since. What's to say smith wouldn't follow the same path?

[Laughable Chimp]

10 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

The counter argument to this is not throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I think the club should do what they think is best for the club. If they think Smith would get us up at the first attempt then he should stay. 

Whether a manager should keep his job should be about what he can do in the future, not what he's done in the past. Don't sack Smith because he failed in the Prem IF he can gets us up next season.

 

And by the way this works the other way. We also shouldn't keep Smith if we get promoted next season IF we think he'll get us relegated again. We shouldn't give a manager a crack at the Prem just for the sake of rewarding him for getting us promoted. He should keep his job if he's the right man to lead the club forward

I don't see a scenario where he gets us promoted and many people think he wouldn't be the man to bring us forward. Even those who don't would mostly still allow him another chance after a successful season.

[useless]

If our owners decide to keep Smith on next season I really hope it's not based on the idea that because Dyche was once relegated with Burnley but then brought them back up and did quite well, so Smith could do the same, that's just one example, there are many other examples of managers going down with clubs and not bringing them back up.

This whole thing of not sacking Smith if we go down because he might do a Dyche, reminds me of when people used to say we shouldn't sack managers because Man Utd didn't sack Ferguson when he got off to a bad start with them, and look what happened there. Already said that.

Edited June 30, 2020 by useless

[Tomaszk]

52 minutes ago, Adbo9 said:

I cant disagree with most of what youre saying

 

but for example, id say Smith was a major component in signing Mings, Targett, Konsa, Hause and Engels as theyre players he knew, played for him previously or wanted to sign previously...…………. that's best part of £60M on defenders - and the sum total of it all is theyre the worst defence in the country...……. 

 

That isn't all Suso 

 

Smith needs to take a massive share of the criticism for me...…………… 

He takes plenty of criticism from me certainly.

I've been disappointed with his lack of tactical flexibility, something that had niggled me since the Championship.

I'm disappointed with his team selections. Many times he's started Hourihane in games you knew he'd get flattened etc.

His subs on 60 mins of Trez/El Ghazi for either El Ghazi or Trez have started to grate.

However!

I don't know what he's meant to do with the players he has. They're pony. Different formations is the obvious one, and he hasn't tried that bar a 343 be didn't like himself that left us so light in midfield teams walked through us at will.

If Suso couldn't find a left back better than Targett for 14m rising to 17m that should be him out the door right away.

Same for Trez, same for Marv.

If Suso couldn't find a striker better than Wes for £20m, he's in the wrong job and should go and be a farmer or something.

 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Tomaszk

[AvfcTheObsession]

33 minutes ago, peterw said:

for all those that voted for Dyche, you do remember that he was relegated in Burnley's first season in the Prem, went down, came back stronger and Burnley have looked decent since. What's to say smith wouldn't follow the same path?

For me, the difference is I hardly remember Dyche having much money at all to spend when he first brought Burnley up. Granted, he'd have been unhappy with a return of 30 points, but Smith has had well over £100m to bolster the squad, and not been able to mould them into a cohesive, organised unit. That, along with the fact his Championship finishes are something like 9th, 10th, 10th and 5th (80% of the season with us), are why I would rather trust someone like Dyche next season to get us back up if we drop, I'd feel much more confident with someone with experience of Top 2 or pedigree abroad (Bielsa/Nuno types) than Smith. Brentford have also kicked on massively since he left and are 3rd, still with a shot of 2nd this season having been a lot more organised defensively under their new boss, despite again a negative net spend this summer.

[peterw]

we can't use the money argument as its not like for like. We ended our season more or less in june and needed a keeper, 2 centre-halfs, two midfielders and a forward. Add to that Hutton retired, and our full backs were Elmohamady & taylor. Other than McGinn and Grealish we had Adomah who we released, El ghazi and Hourihane. Jedinak and Whelan were released meaning that they too needed to be replaced. So before we started we're looking at trying to spend money on the bare minimum of 6 or 7 players just to replace what had gone. We then had to try and spend to fill in gaps.

that anyone who is a Villa fan can criticise that and what we had to do is beyond me. yes you can argue whether Wesley had worked, but I guess if he hadn't got injured and he was on 10 goals now, which doesn't seem possible, then its also likely we'd have a few more points on the board.

You could argue that Smith was a victim of his own success. he got us up sooner than we were probably reay, and sooner than the squad was ready for. i think we'll go down this season, but those that we retain and (I think Mings won't go) will be battle hardened for the Championship, and then ready for the prem in two seasons time. Ready as a battle hardened team, that is settled, with us having to add 4 or 5, not 15 or 16.

I feared relegation in 2015/16, I don't this time round. i think that it will be just a part of the growth of the squad and the team. For every Gidman and Gray, there's a Swain and Withe just waiting to make the sum greater than the parts. 

[Stevo985]

52 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

I don't see a scenario where he gets us promoted and many people think he wouldn't be the man to bring us forward. Even those who don't would mostly still allow him another chance after a successful season.

He got us promoted last season. With a worse squad. And a record breaking run of victories. 
 

I don’t  understand why people think he couldn’t do it again. 
 

the key question to me isn’t if he could get us promoted. It’s whether he could keep us in the Prem second time round

[AvfcTheObsession]

1 minute ago, Stevo985 said:

He got us promoted last season. With a worse squad. And a record breaking run of victories. 
 

I don’t  understand why people think he couldn’t do it again. 
 

the key question to me isn’t if he could get us promoted. It’s whether he could keep us in the Prem second time round

For me it's the fact he was never anywhere near the Top 6 with Brentford, and the fact we won 2 games out of 13 last season under Smith when Jack was injured, that injury lasts another couple of weeks or so, and we don't go up.

[sne]

Said many times I'd be more inclined to keep Smith if we went down than if we stay up.

But IF we go down there is the question of in what mental state he would be. Would he have the energy and drive to "go again" after the year he's had? Would he still have the backing of the squad or do they need a new voice?  Do the owners still think he's the man for the job?

I've no idea about either but I doubt it will be as easy as just pick off where we end up and push on.

[Stevo985]

17 minutes ago, AvfcTheObsession said:

For me it's the fact he was never anywhere near the Top 6 with Brentford, and the fact we won 2 games out of 13 last season under Smith when Jack was injured, that injury lasts another couple of weeks or so, and we don't go up.

But we’d have a far better squad this time around. 

And we’d have a LOT of money to replace Jack with a quality Chanpionship midfielder. Let’s go out and buy Knockaert for example. He’s consistently one of the best players in the championship. 
 

People are taking like we’d drop down, lose our best players and not sign anyone. 
 

Smith did well at Brentford, got us promoted. I don’t know why people don’t think he could get one of the best squads in the league, which I think we’d have, promoted again