Political Ramifications of Covid-19 Pandemic

[DCJonah]

4 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I’m getting utterly sick, and I hope the media are starting to feel the same, about the politicians being asked these questions (mostly in the daily presser) just avoiding every single question. 
 

Like Gove there they don’t answer anything. They just avoid the question in any way possible 

“we’ll issue a response later”

”it wouldn’t be right to discuss that”

”I can’t comment on that now”

”it would be unfair to discuss those issues”

every remotely challenging question. 
it **** pisses me off. No other profession would you get away with doing some sort of presentation and just avoiding any question anybody had. 

Honestly it winds me up more than seeing Jack Grealish trying to park his car early in the morning. 

Its disgraceful and as you say no other profession could you get away with it. 

I'm a teacher and just trying to imagine the response I'd get if during my next Ofsted inspection, I told them it wasn't appropriate to discuss that at this moment. 

Has it always been like this? It feels relatively new to me, the extent to which politicians are so empowered to take the piss with no consequences. Maybe its just Trump and Brexit making it more obvious.

[chrisp65]

24 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Honestly it winds me up more than seeing Jack Grealish trying to park his car early in the morning. 

Its disgraceful and as you say no other profession could you get away with it. 

I'm a teacher and just trying to imagine the response I'd get if during my next Ofsted inspection, I told them it wasn't appropriate to discuss that at this moment. 

Has it always been like this? It feels relatively new to me, the extent to which politicians are so empowered to take the piss with no consequences. Maybe its just Trump and Brexit making it more obvious.

It’s always been the same, it’s just magnified by social media and diluted by social media.

The outrage at Gove will not be seen, digested and remembered by the vast majority of voters that only really want to engage their brain on politics once every few years. They also, rightly or wrongly, think to themselves that ‘the others’ would probably be similarly bad.

I’m reading a book (no, really) at the moment about the rise of Ronald Reagan. He would absolutely infuriate the press, the opposition and anybody remotely interested in politics. He would just make up facts and figures out of thin air, claim credit for ideas that weren’t his, change his mind on subjects and absolutely deny he did change his mind. The press just didn’t know how to deal with him. His own party thought he was a bit thick and maybe even had some mental problems. 

Then an election would come around, and people would think, ooh nice suit, he used to be in films, what a lovely voice and he believes in god. Let’s vote for him. Worked for him all the way up from being the worst union rep, to the worst local politician, the worst governor and eventually President.

Same as it ever was.

 

[blandy]

18 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

Hong Kong Democracy Arrests

We really do have to re calibrate the relationship with China after this, and I don’t mean ask pretty please to be allowed to have them build more nuclear power stations and 5G network for us.

Really is absolutely zero point in skunking money on trident whilst being a tiny business and trade bitch for China.

For the sake of conversation, and again I am on balance against anyone having nukes and all the associated costs, but anyway...

Here we have a genuine world superpower that already throws its weight around and as you say acts irresponsibly, is a one party state with an all powerful leader, which murders, tortures and imprisons people for their ethnicity, their speech, their views, their perceived crimes, is involved in mass industrial theft and espionage, and is in far too many respects a genuine threat to us. Well if that's true, and they have nukes, or even if they just have at some point in the future aggressive malign internet to the UK or the West - don't we need a means of protections against this huge potential aggressor?

Right now they need or want our money and our ideas and us to outsource manufacturing etc.  to grow their economy to further dominance, but when they don't any more. When we try to stand up for openness, freedom of speech and all the lovely apple pie things, or if we had more principled competent leaders that didn't go weak at the knees at the slightest financial interest from whoever?

So I think I'm asking whether this pandemic will make nations want to be more independent in terms of their protection, whether from germs and diseases or from military threat? (yes, I know Trident isn't independent really). General question.

[chrisp65]

I think that nationa will have a period of reflection, on whether globalisation has worked. They’ll think maybe it hasn’t, but it’s too hard and ideologically out of time to step back from it.

Only today, two stories about the provision of PPE, 84 tons due to come from Turkey today, delayed for ‘a period of days’. An order from China for PPE, they are telling us it will be ready when its ready and we can’t dictate the date.

Now, I’m not expecting us to be totally self sufficient in everything we may need for every possible future scenario. We literally and figuratively don’t have the minerals for that. I also know that in a world emergency, other countries really shouldn’t be sending their PPE to us. Just as, incidentally, poor nations shouldn’t be sending us their doctors and nurses. But there is no way on gods good green earth we should be beholden to a country that is philosophically opposed to our way of life. A country that is about as close to an enemy as politicians would care to admit. A country that in many ways is close to lawless, thieving our intellectual property, happily putting CE marks on any old shit and just plain indulging in forgery and corruption.

But, at the end of this, this conservative government will not be saying we were wrong to indulge in globalisation, lowest price, just in time, market driven capitalism. We should actually be making sure our own people are educated and fit and employed. We should be making sure we can supply our own food and water and energy. We should have the ability to gear up and be independently responsive.

They’ll come out with some bollocks about lessons to be learnt and we should be a bit more like Singapore and be brave enough to look beyond Europe and we can be a world leader in such n such. Brave new future, world of opportunity, open for business, trading partner to the globe.

Then, the next crisis will come along, and it will transpire we no longer make our own bullets or flour. 

[blandy]

1 hour ago, chrisp65 said:

But, at the end of this, this conservative government will not be saying we were wrong to indulge in globalisation, lowest price, just in time, market driven capitalism

Of course they won’t., but they think it. Brexit was to an extent about aspects of that (independent, do it ourselves...etc) and in part pure opportunism and in part wanting to do more lowest price market capitalism..

bit of a mix, but you never know.

[chrisp65]

1 minute ago, blandy said:

Of course they won’t., but they think it. Brexit was to an extent about aspects of that (independent, do it ourselves...etc) and in part pure opportunism and in part wanting to do more lowest price market capitalism..

bit of a mix, but you never know.

 

Their ideal outcome? Politicians keep their jobs, donors keep donating, London gets a bit more like Singapore and the rest of us are happy and compliant we’ll be able to extend the credit on our cars and mortgages and get to London 17 minutes quicker in 10 years time.

I would be genuinely amazed if after this there was a single plank of reform of anything that was altruistically put in place to help the lot of the everyday folk.

Anything. On housing, transport, health, tax, education, the environment, flooding (remember floods) absolutely any aspect of life or of investment in our mutual prosperity or preparedness for the next thing.

Though I do expect lots of promise of good things to come, once we’re over this tricky phase. But not just yet. 

We need a new banking sector, a whole new model of how the government and the BoE interact with the people and with small business. We’ve needed that for a decade already, we need it even more now. It just isn’t going to happen. If we’re lucky, they’ll put a couple of quid in to the last twenty post offices and change planning law so credit unions can have a cash machine in the window. Actual direct access between people, government and money. Not a **** chance.

But we will keep trident. It’s important we sit at the big table and set an example and have our voice heard. Yes, we’ll buy it from the States and talk about it on Chinese WiFi. But at least we’ll be in control.

 

[OutByEaster?]

"The NHS is a wonderful thing, a truly marvellous institution that leads the world in health care, and we can be so proud of our nurses, Doctors and hospital workers - that's why it's vital we give them the support and help they need to keep Britain healthy - and it's why we in government will be taking advantage of the streamlined efficient services of Virgin logistics and other major providers, with great links to world healthcare companies and the resources to ensure we're never left short of PPE or other supplies again. By helping our NHS and putting these and other services into the hands of experts that can handle them most efficiently, we're ensuring Britain's healthcare is fit for the 21st century under our NHS - a healthy Britain - a healthy future."

Boris Johnson - in a speech privatising all non-medicinal supply chains for the NHS - 4th June 2021.

 

[chrisp65]

Everybody working frontline jobs for the Vale of Glamorgan council is having a 10% temporary pay rise for the duration.

Good call, that. 

[Genie]

4 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Everybody working frontline jobs for the Vale of Glamorgan council is having a 10% temporary pay rise for the duration.

Good call, that. 

It does open a bit of a can of worms though, doctors and nurses not getting a payrise as far as I am aware?

Its a nice touch but I think there are probably other people more benefiting of a bonus.

[chrisp65]

1 minute ago, Genie said:

It does open a bit of a can of worms though, doctors and nurses not getting a payrise as far as I am aware?

Its a nice touch but I think there are probably other people more benefiting of a bonus.

Really?

The Council shouldn’t reward the bin men, social workers, care assistants and play support workers because someone else hasn’t paid the nurses?

[Genie]

Just now, chrisp65 said:

Really?

The Council shouldn’t reward the bin men, social workers, care assistants and play support workers because someone else hasn’t paid the nurses?

I said it’s a nice touch but it will undoubtedly raise the question, why are public funds found to reward bin men and not nurses who are literally firing on the job? Not saying people on the front line shouldn’t be rewarded, but it will raise that question I’m certain.

[chrisp65]

So clap them, yes, pay them, no?

I think you’ve very likely tapped in to the zeitgeist.

 

[chrisp65]

Although to be fair, I did have my own doubts about the MP’s having access to £10,000 additional expenses headroom, and that’s pretty much the same thing.

I can’t be against the MP’s getting money but then for the play assistants getting an extra 10% of £8.72 an hour.

[Genie]

I said I’m not against it twice, not sure how you’re getting a different message.

But you can bet your life if it was in the mainstream media, or if one of the politicians mentioned it there would be a wave of shock and surprise that they were getting a bonus when doctors and nurses weren’t. If you’re gonna do it especially with public funds then it really needs to apply to all, or at least the most at risk first.

 

[chrisp65]

But how does the local council pay nurses?

We’ve never linked like that before? Surely the other way at looking at that, would be the VoG have just put pressure on the NHS Trust to match the gesture?

I know you’re just offering a counter, one which absolutely will be used by many. But it utterly cheeses me off that the go to in this country is x can’t have something because y hasn’t got it. Surely x getting it increases the chances of y getting a benefit?

Mini rant, but you’ve actually raised something so utterly bloody typical of the attitude in this country. 

Perhaps an even better idea would be to link nurses pay to MP’s pay? Or give care assistants bonuses and bankers can have a little pin badge with ‘banker’ written on it.

We are literally talking about the majority getting a bonus of less than a pound an hour.

 

Edited April 22, 2020 by chrisp65

[VILLAMARV]

Perhaps we'll develop a new social nicety along the lines of bless you and the plague.  

[Seat68]

4 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said:

Perhaps we'll develop a new social nicety along the lines of bless you and the plague.  

I think its already here. People asking how are you, and actually meaning it. 

 

[bannedfromHandV]

54 minutes ago, Genie said:

I said it’s a nice touch but it will undoubtedly raise the question, why are public funds found to reward bin men and not nurses who are literally firing on the job? Not saying people on the front line shouldn’t be rewarded, but it will raise that question I’m certain.

Pretty good question to be raising IMO!

I can’t remember if I posted it or not but I’d like to see every frontline NHS worker be given a Knighthood (if it’s good enough for ol’ Captain Tom......).

As well as recognising and ‘rewarding’ those peoples efforts it could also help toward the start of a new societal order and to begin bridging the gap between the haves and the have-nots.

And what a great incentive for those NHS workers who may be feeling really low at the moment.

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, Genie said:

It does open a bit of a can of worms though, doctors and nurses not getting a payrise as far as I am aware?

Its a nice touch but I think there are probably other people more benefiting of a bonus.

To whatever extent it creates a political demand for higher NHS pay (which is probably not going to be much at all, how many people are really paying attention to what Vale of Glamorgan council are doing on this?) it is a Good Thing, since NHS frontline workers *also* need to be paid more for the danger we are putting them in.

[blandy]

3 hours ago, Genie said:

It does open a bit of a can of worms though, doctors and nurses not getting a payrise as far as I am aware?

Its a nice touch but I think there are probably other people more benefiting of a bonus.

Some supermarkets have given their staff an increase. And rightly so. The council doing similar is also a good thing. Neither employer can help with medics pay, but that shouldn't prevent a good deed being recognised. You're right others may be more deserving, but the people doing all kinds of work, at their actual workplace, are much nearer the top of the chain of people who should be rewarded if they can be. (while the likes of me safely WFH).