villalad21 Posted March 5, 2020 Author Share Posted March 5, 2020 7 minutes ago, lexicon said: He is and has always been absolutely bloody clueless. He's a chancer who could initially talk a good game but as soon as he was able to have any direct influence, such as signings or tactics, he was a bloody disaster. If you want to talk about careers getting ruined, look no further than Lambert. He had sod all to work with. Sherwood is a passion merchant. Worked for him for 2 months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 12 minutes ago, villalad21 said: But you can't judge a manager after his first 2 months. He was a disaster in his first full season. Which was 2 months 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, KentVillan said: That is one problem, but another problem is our lack of pace. We have lots of "quick" players, but nobody where you look at them and say their pace is a standout attribute. Nigel Pearson was on the commentary team tonight for Shef Wed v Man City, and he was talking about how Wednesday were parking the bus but didn't have the pace and individual quality in attack to hit them on the break. Comparing it with his Watford side. I think we have the same problem. We don't have anyone who can hit a team on the break like Sarr at Watford, or Saint Maximin and Almiron at Newcastle, or Zaha, Schlupp, Townsend, etc. at Palace. It means we really have to create goals with good build-up play, and that's a much bigger ask for a weak side. When we had players like Gabby hitting teams on the break, and Carew, Laursen, Heskey, Benteke, etc. going up for set pieces, we could play unadventurous hoofball, terrible build up play, and still pick up points. (I'd say actually, if you look at a lot of those "shit" teams who somehow pick up points - Newcastle and Palace being the biggest culprits - they always have a lot of pace and athleticism.) So yes, you can pin it on a lack of defensive solidity and intensity in the middle of the park, but I think part of the problem is we can't tactically play that deep "low block" or whatever they call it now, because we would never create anything going forward. I think you are bang on. I have never thought that we only have one problem.....but the one i bang on about, hits you in the face and still we can't get to grips with it, with any consisency,the sad fact is,some fans would dismiss winning just to have the spectacle......as an example,Sheff wed at least stopped a 6 goal onslaught, last night...like our effort on Sunday was much better too, in containing a talented team, we just need more of it, but win. winning just solves so many problems. Edited March 5, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted March 5, 2020 Author Share Posted March 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, Zatman said: Which was 2 months And rightfully so. He proved to be clueless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 5, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted March 5, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Mazrim said: I think Sherwood gets way more grief than he deserves. He breathed life into us at the end of that season and had to eat a shit sandwich of conditions he didn't ask for at the start of the next. Players he didn't want and a disinterested owner looking to do one. I think its ruined a potentially good management career too, but maybe I'm giving him more credit than he deserves, I don't know. I liked him and he always speaks well of us. The players he "didn't want" (which I think is a myth he invented to cover his arse) were the best ones. He refused to use half of them. He didn't even speak to some of them. The players he "did want" were Lescott and Richards. He's one of the biggest reasons we went down, and in as disastrous a way as we did. He deserves credit for getting us to the FA cup final the year before and keeping us up. But that's more than wiped out by the damage he did. He benefited from following a manager who had turned himself and the team into a dreary, negative, defensive, boring mess. As soon as a manager came in and said "Cheer up guys, just go out there and do what you want, the reins are off!" they were always going to bounce. When he actually had to do anything, like sign players or build a team or be a **** manager, he failed worse than anyone ever. It's no surprise he's done nothing since. He is an absolute joke of a manager and I doubt he'll ever work as a manager again because everybody knows he's completely shit. Edited March 5, 2020 by Stevo985 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, villalad21 said: And rightfully so. He proved to be clueless. You said judge him over a full season 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrim Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, lexicon said: He is and has always been absolutely bloody clueless. He's a chancer who could initially talk a good game but as soon as he was able to have any direct influence, such as signings or tactics, he was a bloody disaster. If you want to talk about careers getting ruined, look no further than Lambert. He had sod all to work with. He hasn't always been clueless. You mention Lambert, and yes, he had to work on a shoestring, but the football when Sherwood took over was night and day with the same squad - and Norwich aside Lambert has been bobbins. Sherwood had very little or no influence on signings by all accounts (not a myth), so it's a bit harsh to judge him on somebody else's moneyball policies. Of course, he's not blameless, but that team was horrible. It shouldn't have been, but it was. And it was much worse under Garde than Sherwood. But Smith aside (as he's still in a period of scrutiny and I love the guy) I don't really want to champion any of the managers since MON and even he can get ****. Edited March 5, 2020 by Mazrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted March 5, 2020 Author Share Posted March 5, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Zatman said: You said judge him over a full season You have to earn your right to get a full season. Sherwood proved to be nothing other that a passion merchant. It all fell apart when the pressure was on. When he took over everything was pill rotten and all he had to do was to pick everyone up and lift the place, which he did. And from that got some good results. When you go into Pre Season and into a brand new season you need actual coaching and tactics to be some succesful. Edited March 5, 2020 by villalad21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 (edited) When you trawl through all these managers and owners and consider all the money, we have spent on players we have failed to get a tune out of or develop in to better players.....its a bloody wonder, we are where we are....i would have finished some clubs. its been not much short of a catastrophe.....shocking really. Edited March 5, 2020 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrim Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 Just now, TRO said: When you trawl through all these managers and consider all the money, we have spent on players we have failed to get a tune out of or develop in to better players.....its a bloody wonder, we are where we are. its been not much short of a catastrophe.....shocking really. Indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 8 minutes ago, Mazrim said: He hasn't always been clueless. You mention Lambert, and yes, he had to work on a shoestring, but the football when Sherwood took over was night and day with the same squad - and Norwich aside Lambert has been bobbins. Sherwood had very little or no influence on signings by all accounts (not a myth), so it's a bit harsh to judge him on somebody else's moneyball policies. Of course, he's not blameless, but that team was horrible. It shouldn't have been, but it was. And it was much worse under Garde than Sherwood. But Smith aside (as he's still in a period of scrutiny and I love the guy) I don't really want to champion any of the managers since MON and even he can get ****. It was night and day for a short period of time, and even then it was only ever the new manager bounce. His career after tells you everything you need to know about him. Lambert was a broken man by the end of it and it was a miracle he didn't give up sooner. Garde was sandbagged by the board from the very beginning - didn't get any backing at all, the board publicly gave up and the squad was full of rocket polishers. He never had a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, TRO said: When you trawl through all these managers and owners and consider all the money, we have spent on players we have failed to get a tune out of or develop in to better players.....its a bloody wonder, we are where we are....i would have finished some clubs. its been not much short of a catastrophe.....shocking really. Only survived by changing owners at the same rate some clubs change managers. Can see why some clubs hate us and think we've cheated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted March 5, 2020 Author Share Posted March 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, lexicon said: Garde was sandbagged by the board from the very beginning - didn't get any backing at all, the board publicly gave up and the squad was full of rocket polishers. He never had a chance. Gabby and Jack said he was clueless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, sne said: Only survived by changing owners at the same rate some clubs change managers. Can see why some clubs hate us and think we've cheated. These owners have been a life saver with the caveat, not sure about their recruitment approach.....but we will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaFaninLondon Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, sne said: Only survived by changing owners at the same rate some clubs change managers. Can see why some clubs hate us and think we've cheated. But we were cheated by Lerner for many, many years. He invested less than the the likes of Swansea and Southampton in that time, let alone similar-sized clubs like Spurs and Everton. Yes we got some fortune in summer 2018 with the new owners bailing us out, but that fortune was long overdue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 minute ago, TRO said: These owners have been a life saver with the caveat, not sure about their recruitment approach.....but we will see. All of our last 3 owners have had questionable recruitments and/or held on to managers for too long. Pumping in money to cover the previous regimes mistakes is a saving grace thou. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaFaninLondon Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 7 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Gabby and Jack said he was clueless. Jack at the time was going out on the lash every week, and Gabby was an overweight has-been who wasn't interested. Of course they're going to blame Garde rather than themselves. Garde's time with us was a disaster but there's no question he was thrown under the bus by the players and owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted March 5, 2020 Author Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 minute ago, VillaFaninLondon said: Jack at the time was going out on the lash every week, and Gabby was an overweight has-been who wasn't interested. Of course they're going to blame Garde rather than themselves. Garde's time with us was a disaster but there's no question he was thrown under the bus by the players and owner. But what has he done since? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaFaninLondon Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, villalad21 said: But what has he done since? Nothing. But that doesn't mean much in the grander scheme of things. Gregory, Atkinson and Little were fine managers for us, far better than any of the managers mentioned in this thread, but none of them did anything special after leaving us. Edited March 5, 2020 by VillaFaninLondon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 5, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted March 5, 2020 26 minutes ago, villalad21 said: But what has he done since? I don't think anyone is trying to claim Garde was a good manager. Just that it's hard to properly judge his time here because of the absolute shit show he walked into. Guardiola or Klopp couldn't have done anything with us walking into that. He was utterly doomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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