sidcow Posted February 29, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted February 29, 2020 5 hours ago, danceoftheshamen said: Yes all the local top wearing Plastic Man U fans will. Some of them at work were basically saying as much this week. Their idiocy really knows no bounds does it. Suprised they have not all become Liverpool fans by now to be honest. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 29, 2020 Moderator Share Posted February 29, 2020 9 hours ago, Dave-R said: Yeah and you watch we will still see the media try to spin it and make it all a thing again saying we're in trouble. In fairness, the announcement is about a loss of £68.9m; it's not like there isn't an opportunity to make that a bad news story. Thankfully, it looks like that loss is completely underwritten by the NSWE board - and it includes some one off stuff like the payment to Mr Lerner and I'm guessing a number of other promotion bonuses - but it is still the largest operating loss in our history. The good news is that thanks to the owners we've done that without accruing any debt and the other good news is that we seem to be FFP compliant - although how we're managing that given our losses is something of a mystery - I'll take it though! I am wondering if that £68.9m loss includes the sale of the stadium. One thing that will be fun will be comparing our £54.3m turnover for 2018-19 to our turnover for this year - I'd imagine this year will be somewhere between £150m and £200m - the gap between the Championship and Premier league is enormous. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Afro Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 8 hours ago, Mantis said: Maybe I'm being optimistic, but I'd like to think that if we went down we might be able to keep McGinn and Mings, provided we could bounce straight back up. I agree. I think we will only sell them if we get ridiculous offers. Jack will go for huge money but the rest will be easier to keep. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 29, 2020 Moderator Share Posted February 29, 2020 Our reported losses for the last three seasons are: 2016-17 - £14.5m 2017-18 - £36.1m 2018-19 - £68.9m (Thankfully the 2015-16 los of £81.3m is now no longer included for FFP) I make that £119.5m over three years. How does FFP work again? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted February 29, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted February 29, 2020 51 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: How does FFP work again? It doesn't as Bury and Bolton fans will testify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted February 29, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted February 29, 2020 1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said: One thing that will be fun will be comparing our £54.3m turnover for 2018-19 to our turnover for this year - I'd imagine this year will be somewhere between £150m and £200m - the gap between the Championship and Premier league is enormous. And sponsorship deals. I wonder what our total income from all sponsorship deals will be this year compared to last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted February 29, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted February 29, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said: Our reported losses for the last three seasons are: 2016-17 - £14.5m 2017-18 - £36.1m 2018-19 - £68.9m (Thankfully the 2015-16 los of £81.3m is now no longer included for FFP) I make that £119.5m over three years. How does FFP work again? Premier League and UEFA rules allow a loss of up to £45m over 3 seasons (£15m per season), or £135m over 3 seasons (£45m per season) if the owners cover the additional £90m losses over the 3 seasons (£30m per season). Edited February 29, 2020 by fightoffyour 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 2 hours ago, M_Afro said: I agree. I think we will only sell them if we get ridiculous offers. Jack will go for huge money but the rest will be easier to keep. Jack being a Villa fan who loves the club helps massively. He'll still go of course but he should be able to help us maximise the fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 3 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: In fairness, the announcement is about a loss of £68.9m; it's not like there isn't an opportunity to make that a bad news story. Thankfully, it looks like that loss is completely underwritten by the NSWE board - and it includes some one off stuff like the payment to Mr Lerner and I'm guessing a number of other promotion bonuses - but it is still the largest operating loss in our history. The good news is that thanks to the owners we've done that without accruing any debt and the other good news is that we seem to be FFP compliant - although how we're managing that given our losses is something of a mystery - I'll take it though! I am wondering if that £68.9m loss includes the sale of the stadium. One thing that will be fun will be comparing our £54.3m turnover for 2018-19 to our turnover for this year - I'd imagine this year will be somewhere between £150m and £200m - the gap between the Championship and Premier league is enormous. I think with the last paragraph, you probably partially answered your initial questioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 29, 2020 Moderator Share Posted February 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: I think with the last paragraph, you probably partially answered your initial questioning. On FFP? There is the £140m we spent on players to go against that - but I'm hopeful we're a lot nearer to breaking even! We look like we're in a decent spot to continue to make FFP work in the Premier League - if we go down, I'm not sure how we're fixed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 On 22/02/2020 at 20:22, DaveAV1 said: I think where we have possibly made mistakes is in the formulaic way we have tried to develop the footballing side of things. I fully understand that we need a plan and of course there will always be an element of formula when putting together anything repeatable. However I believe we have been too rigid in our approach. As far as I understand, the plan is to recruit players that can either take us forward as a team or have value in the transfer market. The driving force behind implementing this plan is statistical analysis. Statistics can’t be ignored and have a massive place to play in modern football. Wes is a massive supporter of this and his experience in US sports supports his belief. However I believe there is an over emphasis on statistics in our case, I think it lends itself more to US sports and not quite so much football, which is less dependent on set plays than say American Football. I’m not dismissing stats, far from it, but we can’t just ignore good old fashioned football nouse. We can’t be too rigid in how we analyse players, particularly in recruitment. I feel that the overall plan is a good one and the use of statistics vital, but have we forgotten the football in all this? As a business plan it’s hard to be critical, but football is unique and first and foremost a sport. I know that the little things matter these days and we need to be able to measure progress or regression, but football is a unique sport that is very human dependent as far as individual moments are concerned. That “bit of magic” is probably more important in football than any other major team sport. I think in the rush to put a formula together we have sort of forgotten to put a football team together. A very thought provoking post Dave....it makes you wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 (edited) 21 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: They're listed at companies house as being due tomorrow - I'm not sure if that means it will be tomorrow or whether it's the next working day or some-such. The thing is, you could have a number of accountants all have a different view, such is accountancy....not sure what we really get to know, in understandable terms, to the average lay man. I just like to stick to football. Edited February 29, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 To think if our new owners hadn’t come along we’d most likely be in League one right now. Yet we’re in a cup final and out of the bottom 3 of the Premier League. Whilst it doesn’t feel it times there is a lot to be happy about it. It was so close to being so much worse! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 2 hours ago, TRO said: A very thought provoking post Dave....it makes you wonder. I don’t really mean my post to be critical of the board/NSWE because I think that there is an element of them learning on the job too. Even if they’d owned a football club for years, that doesn’t mean they won’t make mistakes along the way. Probably not even mistakes, just ideas that will develop and need tweaking along the way. I think there’s nothing wrong with the basic philosophy, but sometimes you have to address the here and now and be adaptable. The truth is I think they’ve done and are continuing to do a fantastic job in an incredibly short space of time. This is Aston Villa and everything gets done in a brightly lit goldfish bowl, good and bad. You don’t get to make your mistakes under the radar and nobody notices. The upside is whoever finally turns this incredible football club around and brings back the power and the glory will be lauded to the very highest of heights. UTV!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: I don’t really mean my post to be critical of the board/NSWE because I think that there is an element of them learning on the job too. Even if they’d owned a football club for years, that doesn’t mean they won’t make mistakes along the way. Probably not even mistakes, just ideas that will develop and need tweaking along the way. I think there’s nothing wrong with the basic philosophy, but sometimes you have to address the here and now and be adaptable. The truth is I think they’ve done and are continuing to do a fantastic job in an incredibly short space of time. This is Aston Villa and everything gets done in a brightly lit goldfish bowl, good and bad. You don’t get to make your mistakes under the radar and nobody notices. The upside is whoever finally turns this incredible football club around and brings back the power and the glory will be lauded to the very highest of heights. UTV!! I didn't take it as you was criticising, just making a point, an observation worth making IMO. I have a very mixed view of us buying our way of trouble or relying soley on it for development.....players have to want to come and FFP always seems to rear its ugly head, is an obstacle. I applaud the clubs focus on youth, despite it being long term and precarious.....but I think ultimately, its the only way out. I am heartened by learning of a powerful young midfielder in Carney, I wish him and the club all the luck. sure, we will continue to buy players, but getting the right ones, seems tricky. Edited February 29, 2020 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 19 minutes ago, TRO said: I didn't take it as you was criticising, just making a point, an observation worth making IMO. I have a very mixed view of us buying our way of trouble or relying soley on it for development.....players have to want to come and FFP always seems to rear its ugly head, is an obstacle. I applaud the clubs focus on youth, despite it being long term and precarious.....but I think ultimately, its the only way out. I am heartened by learning of a powerful young midfielder in Carney, I wish him and the club all the luck. sure, we will continue to buy players, but getting the right ones, seems tricky. I think it’s a question of achieving the right balance TRO. You’re right, of course we will buy players, but the more we can develop our own the better. A strong youth and development program, that actually produces results, is good for both players good enough for the first team and for finances which of course helps with recruitment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMcKenna Posted February 29, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted February 29, 2020 46 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: I think it’s a question of achieving the right balance TRO. You’re right, of course we will buy players, but the more we can develop our own the better. A strong youth and development program, that actually produces results, is good for both players good enough for the first team and for finances which of course helps with recruitment. Dave, while everything you say is true. The PL clubs that have been successful through managing to ‘develop our own’ are far and few between. IF we stay up, I believe NSWE will splash the cash and join the big spending race. Billionaires have big egos and deep pockets - it’s the way of the football world now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 31 minutes ago, MikeMcKenna said: Dave, while everything you say is true. The PL clubs that have been successful through managing to ‘develop our own’ are far and few between. IF we stay up, I believe NSWE will splash the cash and join the big spending race. Billionaires have big egos and deep pockets - it’s the way of the football world now. I don’t disagree with that Mike, but I think there’s room for a bit of balance. For me the dream is to be a successfully run, modern football club that can be self sustaining but also have the financial backing of billionaire owners that can pump in millions when required to get that special player that puts the icing on the cake. With Nas and Wes we could potentially get to that point. We’re already light years ahead of what we’ve endured over the recent and not so recent past. Let the glory days start tomorrow! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-R Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 6 hours ago, sidcow said: And sponsorship deals. I wonder what our total income from all sponsorship deals will be this year compared to last. I dont know but arnt betting sponsors under fire from politicians and that will seriously hurt some clubs who do rely on those type of sponsors, they bring in the most money do they not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted March 4, 2020 Moderator Share Posted March 4, 2020 So, here they are: Bad link was bad - here's a better one: https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/05891280/filing-history Click on that to see the full accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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