cheltenham_villa Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, villaglint said: A very solid first start, reminiscent of a lot of Ramsey’s games. Did most things right not a lot wrong. Nothing outstanding but didn’t let anyone down which given his age and the occasion he should be proud of. I think this is pretty fair. On reflection we may have been better with Nakamba, he seemed to bring a bit more energy when he came on but it was nice for Carney to get a start and I think the experience will do him well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, DCJonah said: I think we forget the interest Carney had before he signed his deal. There were reports of bundesliga teams offering him routes to first team football I'd imagine when he signed he was promised the opportunity to be around the first team. We've sent plenty of kids out on loan, I trust the people we have to develop each player differently. They've given us no reasons to worry about it so far. Possibly, but that’s not necessarily good for his development. I think he should be on loan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 1 minute ago, Delphinho123 said: He should be on loan. This idea that a load of 17/18yr olds are gonna fire us to Europe is madness. We have a good crop of 17/18/19yr olds, let’s send them out on loan for a couple of years to get fitter and stronger and see where we’re at then. No rush with these kids. I disagree but not totally. At 17 and the way this club is being run these days, he should be at the club learning the way things are done, being developed by the club in how the club wants to play, being slowly integrated in to the first team with minutes here and there if they're good enough (this kid is from what I've seen). He should be learning from Mings, Watkins, Martinez etc. on what it takes to be a professional at the highest level and the attitude required to become like them. Also the coaches in the PL are the best in the business and therefore they should be taught by these coaches on how to best develop. There are obviously exceptions (as with players) to this in the lower leagues, but in the main, PL coaches are better than say a League 1 coach. Then at around late 18/19 they should go out on loan as a sort of finishing school - a kind of, we've thought you everything that we can, now go and experience playing in matches. Then they come back and get slowly integrated in to the first team a la Ramsey last season/this season. It's all very idealistic I know. There are also players that are "special" shall we say and don't need a loan. Rooney, Rashford etc. They just look at home in the PL straight away. Is Carney that good? I don't know but on today's showing he didn't look all that out of place. He could have a fairly significant part to play. Not a starting 30 PL games role but, cup games, 20 minutes here or there, starting the odd PL game. That experience could be worth as much if not more than playing against Peterborough or Lincoln City week in, week out. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okonokos Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 He really did not look out of place at all. Not one bit. Looked like he'd been playing at this level for a few years. The more he plays, the better he will get too. He's ready. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 (edited) Postives - Plays with a nonchalant swagger Negatives - TOOOO Nonchalant for PL. He is probably where Jacob Ramsey was last year? Edited August 28, 2021 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 1 minute ago, Delphinho123 said: Possibly, but that’s not necessarily good for his development. I think he should be on loan. Do you not think the coaches and Lange know what they're doing? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aston_Villan4 Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, a m ole said: Yes? A joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 There's no way he's going out on loan, he's good enough now to play for our first team, there's a reason why he was selected today ahead of two very experienced midfielders in Hourihane and Nakamba, we aren't going to go from thinking he's good enough to start ahead of those two to thinking he has to go on loan because one game, a game in which he actually did well. It seems people are overly critical of midfielders, doesn't matter who plays there for us unless they play sensational they're deemed not good enough. I think it's a position that a lot of people don't understand. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 1 minute ago, DCJonah said: Do you not think the coaches and Lange know what they're doing? Not always no. Just because a person is in a position of power, doesn’t make them untouchable. Bruce is still a football manager, remember? I trust our guys, but I’ll still offer opinion on what I think is best to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 Just now, useless said: There's no way he's going out on loan, he's good enough now to play for our first team, there's a reason why he was selected today ahead of two very experienced midfielders in Hourihane and Nakamba, we aren't going to go from thinking he's good enough to start ahead of those two to thinking he has to go on loan because one game, a game in which he actually did well. It seems people are overly critical of midfielders, doesn't matter who plays there for us unless they play sensational they're deemed not good enough. I think it's a position that a lot of people don't understand. I really like him but he’s a ways off yet IMO. He’ll be ace when he’s 20/21. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Aston_Villan4 said: A joke. I get it, but I’m not complaining about using young players and thinking they should be out on loan, the point is that if Carney was out on loan we’d have to have EVEN younger players on the bench due to the injuries and covid shit we’re dealing with. Thinking he should be out on loan is a bad opinion given our current situation. Edited August 28, 2021 by a m ole 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 5 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said: I disagree but not totally. At 17 and the way this club is being run these days, he should be at the club learning the way things are done, being developed by the club in how the club wants to play, being slowly integrated in to the first team with minutes here and there if they're good enough (this kid is from what I've seen). He should be learning from Mings, Watkins, Martinez etc. on what it takes to be a professional at the highest level and the attitude required to become like them. Also the coaches in the PL are the best in the business and therefore they should be taught by these coaches on how to best develop. There are obviously exceptions (as with players) to this in the lower leagues, but in the main, PL coaches are better than say a League 1 coach. Then at around late 18/19 they should go out on loan as a sort of finishing school - a kind of, we've thought you everything that we can, now go and experience playing in matches. Then they come back and get slowly integrated in to the first team a la Ramsey last season/this season. It's all very idealistic I know. There are also players that are "special" shall we say and don't need a loan. Rooney, Rashford etc. They just look at home in the PL straight away. Is Carney that good? I don't know but on today's showing he didn't look all that out of place. He could have a fairly significant part to play. Not a starting 30 PL games role but, cup games, 20 minutes here or there, starting the odd PL game. That experience could be worth as much if not more than playing against Peterborough or Lincoln City week in, week out. Fair comment . See your point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 Just now, Delphinho123 said: Not always no. Just because a person is in a position of power, doesn’t make them untouchable. Bruce is still a football manager, remember? I trust our guys, but I’ll still offer opinion on what I think is best to do. Agreed but until they've done something wrong I'm happy to put my faith in them. Carney will get premier league minutes this year. I think at 17 that's good for his development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aston_Villan4 Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 1 minute ago, useless said: There's no way he's going out on loan, he's good enough now to play for our first team, there's a reason why he was selected today ahead of two very experienced midfielders in Hourihane and Nakamba, we aren't going to go from thinking he's good enough to start ahead of those two to thinking he has to go on loan because one game, a game in which he actually did well. It seems people are overly critical of midfielders, doesn't matter who plays there for us unless they play sensational they're deemed not good enough. I think it's a position that a lot of people don't understand. I’ve always wanted him to go out on loan. Wouldn’t mind seeing him be the main man at a Championship club, getting a full season under his belt instead of occasionally coming on for us when someone is injured. Honestly don’t care how it’s done though. Just want to see him develop and become a world class player for us because he clearly has that talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 5 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Do you not think the coaches and Lange know what they're doing? We possibly wouldn't be able to have a opinion on anyone in this club if people just took yours as fact. Be positive only, we know, we know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 He’s clearly got something about him and there were a couple of nice touches and runs. But I felt, he is quite lackadaisical, now that is his style, but there were a few times when it looked like he could have been more intense and got there ahead of the Brentford player, but instead he just slowly jogged. It’ll be a learning curve for him and he’ll benefit a lot from today. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Agreed but until they've done something wrong I'm happy to put my faith in them. Carney will get premier league minutes this year. I think at 17 that's good for his development. Yeh, could go either way tbf. We’ll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 Unless we sign someone we need Carney as a squad option. Can assess whether a loan might be good in January. I thought he was a bit off it today. Not that great but good for him to get some minutes and the experience of a first PL start - should only drive him on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: We possibly wouldn't be able to have a opinion on anyone in this club if people just took yours as fact. Be positive only, we know, we know! I know us not losing must have hurt today. Don't worry though, there will be other opportunities to let rip. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aston_Villan4 Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, a m ole said: I get it, but I’m not complaining about using young players and thinking they should be out on loan, the point is that if Carney was out on loan we’d have to have EVEN younger players on the bench due to the injuries and covid shit we’re dealing with. Thinking he should be out on loan is a bad opinion given our current situation. Agreed. And I should clarify, I’m not suggesting we just throw him away on loan now. It should obviously been done in an ideal situation. He’s still so young and there’s no rush on him but like I said in my last post. I’d like to see him be the main guy at a club for a season instead of occasionally getting game time for us. But whatever the coaches think is best for him, I’m all for it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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