Ratings & Reactions: Villa v Spurs

[terrytini]

3 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

Very insightful that from Jermaine. Next he'll be telling us that as Norwich are scoring less than a goal a game and conceding almost 2 goals a game they therefore have problems scoring and are poor defensively. Every team in the relegation mix will either be poor defensively, not score enough goals or both.

We all know we have issues defensively.  Thankfully though we have been good enough going forward that we have gotten enough results to be out of the relegation places.

The reasons we are struggling defensively are most likely numerous. Lack of understanding, I'd imagine that is the first time those players have played together as a back 3 and even our most established defensive line up would only have played half a dozen games together be it a back 3/5 or back 4. Too many needless individual errors. Perhaps players simply not being good enough for this level. Lack of midfield cover leaving the defense exposed. Being too attacking leaving us exposed defensively. Poor coaching. I really don't know. I am not surprised though given that most of us expected us to struggle that we do have a major deficiency. The other 6 or 7 teams in the mire with us, some way more established at this level than us, also have at least one major deficiency. I don't think we need Jermaine Jenas or anyone else to tell us that do we.

Our Posts crossed, if I’d known you were writing this I could’ve saved myself the bother !

[markavfc40]

13 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Our Posts crossed, if I’d known you were writing this I could’ve saved myself the bother !

Thankfully you never mate as yours is the better post.

[AntrimBlack]

15 hours ago, TRO said:

Some how......"we played well, but the defending was a shambles" seems contradictory to me.

I always thought defending was an integral part of the game and part of the analysis of playing well.

 

I sort of agree with him. The forward players and wing backs were very good, and in the first half and also parts of the second were really dominating Spurs.

But, then and throughout, the defence always looked vulnerable. They always look as though they have a mistake waiting to happen.

And, as I have said elsewhere, if we go down it will be because of our shambolic defence.

[TRO]

8 hours ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

For the style of play yes, but JT works with the defence individually and does drills with them, so of course he's also also responsible for them switching off and making individual errors. 

Despite the criticism our defence has come under.....i still think a huge portion of our defending problem comes from not smothering the problem at source....we allow teams i.e Spurs, southampton to launch long balls to spirited runners, the lack of pace in the side plays in to their hands too......we are simply too predictable and vulnerable to be attacked.

[TRO]

6 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

Very insightful that from Jermaine. Next he'll be telling us that as Norwich are scoring less than a goal a game and conceding almost 2 goals a game they therefore have problems scoring and are poor defensively. Every team in the relegation mix will either be poor defensively, not score enough goals or both.

We all know we have issues defensively.  Thankfully though we have been good enough going forward that we have gotten enough results to be out of the relegation places.

The reasons we are struggling defensively are most likely numerous. Lack of understanding, I'd imagine that is the first time those players have played together as a back 3 and even our most established defensive line up would only have played half a dozen games together be it a back 3/5 or back 4. Too many needless individual errors. Perhaps players simply not being good enough for this level. Lack of midfield cover leaving the defense exposed. Being too attacking leaving us exposed defensively. Poor coaching. I really don't know. I am not surprised though given that most of us expected us to struggle that we do have a major deficiency. The other 6 or 7 teams in the mire with us, some way more established at this level than us, also have at least one major deficiency. I don't think we need Jermaine Jenas or anyone else to tell us that do we.

You may dismiss his analysis, but I think it was very relevant to the game.

He will not indulge talking about the past achievements of our manager, its semi irrelevant....or never felt it necessary to delve in to the mitigation of players not playing together, what has trying to use your studs to trap a screaming ball got to do with playing together, his execution was naive and lacked conviction.

for sure, we deserved a draw.

I do agree that numerous things are wrong with our defending and one is, we don't deal with it at source, usually midfield.....we are far too easy to play against.

I feel very confident ,we will not score our way out of this , i think clean sheets are a must.

At present we are asking the team to score 3 goals or more to win, that is a big ask in this league......and a much bigger ask than keeping a clean sheet.

Edited February 17, 2020 by TRO

[TRO]

7 hours ago, terrytini said:

I think that’s the point a lot of us have been trying to make

For all the criticism of Smith, as you have just pointed out, Spurs, with all those International Caps, a decade of Top 4 football, hundreds of millions of pounds, and both Poch and Jose in charge, still have a ropey defence.

So maybe, just maybe, Smith, with one truncated summer in charge of a Team that was mid table Championship going nowhere about 50 games ago, deserves a bit of time and patience ?

Of course the defence needs to be better. And when it is, everything else will need to be better, and so on.

There is little to debate about our shortcomings, the difference is between those that think the circumstances lend themselves to a more tolerant view, and those that don’t.

Thankfully I am 100% certain the Owners, and majority of fans, not necessarily on Forums, fall into the former camp.

I think to attempt to discuss our short comings as intolerant is case for denial.

by the way, i thought Samatta was very pleasing to watch and encouraging for the future and flys in the face of needing so much time to gel....so many of his actions, was competent after being with us a wet day, and coming from an alien league.

despite what both sides say, its purely a forecast of what we all think will happen.

I guess after 12 games and the fulness of time ,we will know our fate.

I truly hope my opinion of our deficiencies does not come home and bite us.

Edited February 17, 2020 by TRO

[imavillan]

14 minutes ago, TRO said:

You may dismiss his analysis, but I think it was very relevant to the game.

He will not indulge talking about the past achievements of our manager, its semi irrelevant....or never felt it necessary to delve in to the mitigation of players not playing together, what has trying to use your studs to trap a screaming ball got to do with playing together, his execution was naive and lacked conviction.

I do agree that numerous things are wrong with our defending and one is, we don't deal with it at source, usually midfield.....we are far too easy to play against.

I feel very confident ,we will not score our way out of this , i think clean sheets are a must.

At present we are asking the team to score 3 goals or more to win, that is a big ask in this league......and a much bigger ask than keeping a clean sheet.

TRO,

Most of your posts are well balanced and insightful and we can all agree on the deficiencies of our defence.

You are right, we will not score our way out of it. Clean sheets are the key and the basis to a platform on, however, unless there is a change in strategy and our approach it will not happen.

It was nailed on yesterday that we would not keep a clean sheet, even if we would have gone 2 up like we should have done.

The evidence is there to see this season.

3 Clean sheets all season. (Everton, West Ham and Norwich).

The only team NOT to keep a clean sheet away from home. 

I think the only way we have a chance of keeping a clean sheet is a change in strategy and tactics. Go defensive, swamp the midfield (no wingers) and play 5,4,1 formation making it very tight. 

If we keep playing the same formation with the same tactics we will keep getting the same results and i'm afraid it's back to the Championship.

The big question is, has the manager got the kahunas to do it and have the coaching staff got the nouse to deliver it.

Sadly, from what i have seen i seriously doubt it.

 

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, imavillan said:

TRO,

Most of your posts are well balanced and insightful and we can all agree on the deficiencies of our defence.

You are right, we will not score our way out of it. Clean sheets are the key and the basis to a platform on, however, unless there is a change in strategy and our approach it will not happen.

It was nailed on yesterday that we would not keep a clean sheet, even if we would have gone 2 up like we should have done.

The evidence is there to see this season.

3 Clean sheets all season. (Everton, West Ham and Norwich).

The only team NOT to keep a clean sheet away from home. 

I think the only way we have a chance of keeping a clean sheet is a change in strategy and tactics. Go defensive, swamp the midfield (no wingers) and play 5,4,1 formation making it very tight. 

If we keep playing the same formation with the same tactics we will keep getting the same results and i'm afraid it's back to the Championship.

The big question is, has the manager got the kahunas to do it and have the coaching staff got the nouse to deliver it.

Sadly, from what i have seen i seriously doubt it.

 

I fear you are right.....we have scored more goals than 11 other Premier league teams, despite our unfair share of problems in that area......we have scored 6 goals more than sheff utd, despite being 14 points deficit to them....its not rocket science.

The issues may be obvious, some are able to talk about it, like you....others prefer to call the irritation a side show of inconvenience.......for  me it screams serious issue.

I don't want to lose Dean Smith, I want him to get the team to grind out results in the next 12 games....its  not a witch hunt, its a passionate call to try and address our issues.

Despite Spurs superior individual talent, particular reference to pace, top teams generally let you play, and when they do that , we can......testiment to presiding over a decent goals for return... its the inability to stop teams playing against us is our main achilles heel.

We all know that should have been a draw....and that is testiment to how well we played offensively.....but our naivety in defending will be our undoing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TRO]

On 17/02/2020 at 00:28, screwdriver said:

This is another 3 points flushed down the toilet. The weakest Spurs team to visit Villa Park since Ramos and jol.  Pre match I  looked at it, looked at the away record of spurs, look at spurs only threat is son. delli alli does nothing these days. The rest I can't see any danger and you're thinking we can get something today. Then you hear about mings and your heart sinks.

Its no suprise we lost really. Villa need all their top boys on the pitch to get anything. When you don't have mings you lose his influence.

 

But ....Smith should have started Nkamba and drinkwater. especially without mings there was a need to reinforce the shakey defence.  It's obvious to me Smith is playing press and guess with the squad. especially the midfield as the personel changes every week. Two DM's help the defence. Luiz is ok to bring on for 15mins  in an attacking sense. But I don't trust him in a defencive midfield role. can't concentrate. Also I see week in week out him getting the ball with space in front of him and he turns 180° to give it back to the centre halves, when he should drive forward.However I'm suprised Drinkwater is still not yet looking fit. Has he ever finised one match?

Nkamba and Drink are good at nicking ball in midfield. you dont get this with luiz. Drink had a crap first 5 mins kept giving it away but then he made some good tackles and nicked a few balls and was involved in some moves.

 

I can't wait for the day Reina Gillbert Mings Engels( still better than hause and konsa)  Drinkwater Nkaba McGinn Grealish and Smatter are all on the pitch at the same moment. I just hope it won't be too late.

 

 

 

Its interesting the different opinions.....I thought Drinkwater was slightly better than previous,games I thought Hause was the marginally better of the 3 , i thought he was up for it and won some crucial headers, to win back territory.

I think Luiz will be a good player, but a DM, not for me....he has to work more to stop the opposition ,to do that job.

I think the personnel change due to the individual inconsistency, is understandable to a degree.....who really does know what our best team is?....such is the inconsistency.

Edited February 18, 2020 by TRO

[TRO]

I turned to the guy next to me on 90 minutes and said " i wouldn't surprise me to see them nick this"

It pisses me off to be harbouring these thoughts and then see them followed through as fact.

To be playing a  highline with seconds to go was ridiculous.....I think Elmo may have recovered  that had he been on as he is a bit more cautious.

[terrytini]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I think to attempt to discuss our short comings as intolerant is case for denial.

by the way, i thought Samatta was very pleasing to watch and encouraging for the future and flys in the face of needing so much time to gel....so many of his actions, was competent after being with us a wet day, and coming from an alien league.

despite what both sides say, its purely a forecast of what we all think will happen.

I guess after 12 games and the fulness of time ,we will know our fate.

I truly hope my opinion of our deficiencies does not come home and bite us.

Let’s not do the whole but again but...how can it possibly be denial ?

The facts speak for themselves as regards our defence ( by which I agree with you means throughout the side). I’m not denying anything.

I couldn’t be clearer....the difference is not between “those in denial” and “ realists” as you persist in portraying it.

Its between those who think there are plenty mitigating circumstances, that time and patience is needed,  and those who don’t.

Now, I fully accept those in the latter camp are entitled to be so. They annoy me intensely, but it’s their view, fair enough.

But to keep having the suggestion made that those people are in some way more realistic, or seeing some great revelation, isn’t on.

Im not in denial. I’m just fully behind the Coach and the players in this fight.

[terrytini]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I fear you are right.....we have scored more goals than 11 other Premier league teams, despite our unfair share of problems in that area......we have scored 6 goals more than sheff utd, despite being 14 points deficit to them....its not rocket science.

The issues may be obvious, some are able to talk about it, like you....others prefer to call the irritation a side show of inconvenience.......for  me it screams serious issue.

I don't want to lose Dean Smith, I want him to get the team to grind out results in the next 12 games....its  not a witch hunt, its a passionate call to try and address our issues.

Despite Spurs superior individual talent, particular reference to pace, top teams generally let you play, and when they do that , we can......testiment to presiding over a decent goals for return... its the inability to stop teams playing against us is our main achilles heel.

We all know that should have been a draw....and that is testiment to how well we played offensively.....but our naivety in defending will be our undoing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It’s talked about, primarily by you, almost daily, and has been all season.

Again, that’s your right, but don’t knock those of us who would love to not hear it for a bit.

[terrytini]

43 minutes ago, TRO said:

I turned to the guy next to me on 90 minutes and said " i wouldn't surprise me to see them nick this"

It pisses me off to be harbouring these thoughts and then see them followed through as fact.

To be playing a  highline with seconds to go was ridiculous.....I think Elmo may have recovered  that had he been on as he is a bit more cautious.

Nothing makes me happier than that I don’t stand near someone like that

[markavfc40]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

You may dismiss his analysis, but I think it was very relevant to the game.

He will not indulge talking about the past achievements of our manager, its semi irrelevant....or never felt it necessary to delve in to the mitigation of players not playing together, what has trying to use your studs to trap a screaming ball got to do with playing together, his execution was naive and lacked conviction.

for sure, we deserved a draw.

I do agree that numerous things are wrong with our defending and one is, we don't deal with it at source, usually midfield.....we are far too easy to play against.

I feel very confident ,we will not score our way out of this , i think clean sheets are a must.

At present we are asking the team to score 3 goals or more to win, that is a big ask in this league......and a much bigger ask than keeping a clean sheet.

I am not dismissing his analysis. I am saying he is stating the obvious and what we can all see. We may differ in the reasons as to why and I stated in my previous post the issues contributing to our defensive problems are probably numerous but I won't repeat them all again as repeating the same old clap trap can get very boring.

As for you being very confident we won't score our way out of this (I assume you mean relegation) time will tell I guess. 26 games in we have managed to score enough goals to ensure that despite our defensive issues we are not in the bottom 3. For what it's worth I am reasonably confident we will be able to do enough for that to still be the case come the end of the season and we can then all again look back on a successful campaign and another huge step in the right direction. 

 

 

Edited February 17, 2020 by markavfc40

[TRO]

1 hour ago, terrytini said:

It’s talked about, primarily by you, almost daily, and has been all season.

Again, that’s your right, but don’t knock those of us who would love to not hear it for a bit.

Terry, I agree you are entitled to your opinion,and the others,  but to use the mitigations to the extent some do is tantamount to denial.....I too continue to support him, but he needs to help himself.

we have just seen a player in Samatta, make a good account of himself, in a couple of weeks after arriving from another league, so this notion about time is wearing thin.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, markavfc40 said:

I am not dismissing his analysis. I am saying he is stating the obvious and what we can all see. We may differ in the reasons as to why and I stated in my previous post the issues contributing to our defensive problems are probably numerous but I won't repeat them all again as repeating the same old clap trap can get very boring.

As for you being very confident we won't score our way out of this (I assume you mean relegation) time will tell I guess. 26 games in we have managed to score enough goals to ensure that despite our defensive issues we are not in the bottom 3. For what it's worth I am reasonably confident we will be able to do enough for that to still be the case come the end of the season and we can then all again look back on a successful campaign and another huge step in the right direction. 

 

 

 

You say he was stating the obvious, i take that as an endorsement, but forgive me for confusing that with some of the posts that are reluctant to embrace our current failings, only under duress as a legitimate case for concern and a roll out of mitigation as a case of acceptance.....little wonder posts like mine are so repeated.

you have not made it clear, you can see it ,at all, even though you may well do, thats the frustration.

I don't accept those shotfalls as inevitable, under the circumstances, and I am far from being the only one......sorry.

I wish i could share your optimism so readily,Mark

Edited February 18, 2020 by TRO

[TRO]

2 hours ago, terrytini said:

Nothing makes me happier than that I don’t stand near someone like that

Haha, do you not make the odd comment during a game......perhaps, I should have said something contrary to my perceptions to make folk feel good.....I was cheering them on all through the game, my whispered thoughts got the better of me.....but Alas!!! i was right......isn't it a drag, when really, you don't want to be right.

I am not from the temperence society, you know, i say what i feel.

Edited February 18, 2020 by TRO

[TRO]

13 hours ago, terrytini said:

Nothing makes me happier than that I don’t stand near someone like that

I would be disappointed.....as I sit in a seat.

Edited February 18, 2020 by TRO

[delboy54]

After the game I was so annoyed I harboured thoughts that if we stay up I will give up my season ticket.....VARS is destroying the game, the joy of celebrating a goal has gone, in fact the enjoyment of the game of football played in this league is dulled, due to inconsistent decisions from consistently wrong referees and officials.

I drive over 2 1/2 hrs to get to home games, I enjoy the walk to Villa Park, the crowd, the build up...what I don't enjoy much now, is the beautiful simple game that I love slowly being destroyed by pixels on a monitor subjectively being reviewed by some Representative for Wellingborough in a shed somewhere.

Does anyone think that VARS decisions equal themselves out over a season?

Regards to all you guys

Derek

[VillaFaninLondon]

18 hours ago, terrytini said:

I think that’s the point a lot of us have been trying to make

For all the criticism of Smith, as you have just pointed out, Spurs, with all those International Caps, a decade of Top 4 football, hundreds of millions of pounds, and both Poch and Jose in charge, still have a ropey defence.

So maybe, just maybe, Smith, with one truncated summer in charge of a Team that was mid table Championship going nowhere about 50 games ago, deserves a bit of time and patience ?

Of course the defence needs to be better. And when it is, everything else will need to be better, and so on.

There is little to debate about our shortcomings, the difference is between those that think the circumstances lend themselves to a more tolerant view, and those that don’t.

Thankfully I am 100% certain the Owners, and majority of fans, not necessarily on Forums, fall into the former camp.

I think the answer lies somewhere in between. I was not naive enough to think just because we’ve spent a lot in the summer this would be a smooth season - we had to accommodate 12 new players (16 if we include January signings). Top half was always a pipe dream and I thought 14th or 15th was more realistic.

 

I’m still not sure we could have signed fewer players and operated on a smaller squad with more quality, but that’s my view. Wolves did that and they’ve done brilliantly by investing in higher quality than we have. You can always build a squad over time but you need quality in this league, especially playing the way we do. All that money spent and we’re a completely one-man team and that player cost nothing.

 

Ignoring all this, Smith and our coaches have still made mistakes. Signing Drinkwater when a CB would have been better, signing Baston a Swansea reserve, making strange subs, failing to improve the defence and adapt our style of play to be more successful and balanced 26 games into the season. Not buying more than one striker in the summer, failing to bring in higher profile players (maybe more our transfer committee’s fault than Dean’s to be fair). These are all constructive criticisms but I accept your point that we’ve had to build a new team and squad quickly and were undone by our previous manager’s failures in the sense he left us with an ageing squad with a lot of loans from other clubs.