TRO Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, Keyblade said: I don't understand English football's obsession with a destroyer in the middle of the park. Look at most of the top teams, they don't play with one. They play with sweeper DCM's who have excellent positional awareness and an eye for a pass. We have an unbelievably talented player in Luiz who fits that bill to a tee. Why mess that up by pushing him up so we can play some brute behind him to "do the dirty work"? But they do...Busquets, is one of the best in the world, who is just coming to the end of his playing days. I guess, its down to interpretation, sure football changes, but in many ways it remains the same too....a paradox for sure......I would suspect we are talking cross wires, because all the great teams have one. I see Jordan Henderson, Fernandino and Rodrigo, plays the role Kante, Dier do too. Real Madrid always play with Defensive Midfielders, just to name a few over recent times.....Ruben de la Red, Thomas Gravesen, Lucas Silva,Casemiro, Mahamadou Diarra, Fernando Gago, Emerson. I suspect you are talking one thing and I am talking another......I am not talking about just a big ugly stopper, but I guess a bit of that comes in to it......I am talking about a cultured playerswho can start attacks, read the game for danger and protect the two centre backs...usually a leader with intelligence, who can orchestrate the game management and set the tempo. Thats my idea of CDM If you think that can be ignored or dispensed with, its best we end the conversation.....because I think its an obsession all the top teams have. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 43 minutes ago, Phil Silvers said: He was excellent after the break for sure but as TRO mentioned above, he is such a great technically gifts player pressing forward that if we could get a talented brick shithouse behind DL SJM and Jack then it might transform us for the better and also give us more options Nobody remember Claude Makalele? What about Pirlo? Roy Keane anyone? None of these were big or even average (except Pirlo, who played aggression free), yet all of them for different reasons made excellent defensive mids. Aggression and a good engine, as well as a good tackler is generally needed. But INTELLIGENCE and a good reader of the game are necessary to be a great defensive mid. Pirlo had neither aggression, tackling or even much of an engine bur his intelligence and reading of the game combined with his incredible passing made him a great in the position. No point having a big lump without the technique, intelligence, and awareness to go with it. Smaller player bring their own advantages, like agility, reactions, stamina. Douglas Luiz has almost everything needed for him to be GREAT in defensive midfield. Just needs experience, and hard work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Villarocker said: I felt compelled to trawl a certain website that does player stats and found this name: Domenico Berardi. He's 6ft tall, player as an attacker for Sassuolo in Italy and scored 14 and had 10 assists from 29 appearances this last season. He is only 26 and according to another website that values players he has a market value of around £17m. He is left-footed but mainly plays as attacking right midfield so would replace El Ghazi. Anybody got any knowledge of him? I don't think its possible to have ever played football manager in the last 10 years and not know who he is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Keyblade Posted August 13, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 13, 2020 1 minute ago, TRO said: But they do...Busquets, is one of the best in the world, who is just coming to the end of his playing days. I guess, its down to interpretation, sure football changes, but in many ways it remains the same too....a paradox for sure......I would suspect we are talking cross wires, because all the great teams have one. I see Jordan Henderson, Fernandino and Rodrigo, plays the role Kante, Dier do too. Real Madrid always play with Defensive Midfielders, just to name a few over recent times.....Ruben de la Red, Thomas Gravesen, Lucas Silva,Casemiro, Mahamadou Diarra, Fernando Gago, Emerson. I suspect you are talking one thing and I am talking another......I am not talking about just a big ugly stopper, but I guess a bit of that comes in to it......I am talking about a cultured playerswho can start attacks, read the game for danger and protect the two centre backs...usually a leader with intelligence, who can orchestrate the game management and set the tempo. Thats my idea of CDM If you think that can be ignored or dispensed with, its best we end the conversation.....because I think its an obsession all the top teams have. I'm not saying teams don't play with defensive midfielders anymore, just that the "destroyer" role has been phased out for a while. Would you class Busquets as a "destroyer"? Or Thiago Alcantara, Casemiro, De Jong etc? Most of these players are actually quite slight, but they know where to be on the pitch and intercept danger before it materializes. That's where the modern game is now. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Philosopher said: Nobody remember Claude Makalele? What about Pirlo? Roy Keane anyone? None of these were big or even average (except Pirlo, who played aggression free), yet all of them for different reasons made excellent defensive mids. Aggression and a good engine, as well as a good tackler is generally needed. But INTELLIGENCE and a good reader of the game are necessary to be a great defensive mid. Pirlo had neither aggression, tackling or even much of an engine bur his intelligence and reading of the game combined with his incredible passing made him a great in the position. No point having a big lump without the technique, intelligence, and awareness to go with it. Smaller player bring their own advantages, like agility, reactions, stamina. Douglas Luiz has almost everything needed for him to be GREAT in defensive midfield. Just needs experience, and hard work. Absolutely spot on. I am not sure about Dougie.....you could be right of course, but Man City, seem to have a watchful eye and that buy back clause, seems to hang over his head.....we might need to insure ourselves against that, by seeking another. I was mightily impressed with Doug since Lockdown, if he can keep that up and progress, who knows he could be the answer......right now I would look for one, and play dougie slightly further forward to help with a higher press. Edited August 13, 2020 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okonokos Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 I posted this in the Rashica thread but thought I'd put it here too. For those who haven't seen much of Rashica, this is the best video I've found that pretty much sums him up in a nutshell... He's lethal running at defences in a central position. Such an exciting player. Also, there's this video too. This was the last game of the season, Bremen needed to win and potentially by 4 goals in order to stay up. Rashica was absolutely incredible. Highlights include his goal starting at 1:06, his run through the middle and shot at 1:55 and possibly my favourite, his assist at 2:50. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 I think we need to be careful with our praise of Luiz. Don't get me wrong, I like him and hold my hands up on getting it wrong with him last season but we do need to all remember that he was poor for the most part in the 30 games leading up to lockdown. I really hope he can continue his form into the new season as he could be a really fantastic player. I just don't think we should be saying he has that position locked down and he has 'made it his own' based off a relatively short spell of good form. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 15 minutes ago, Rob182 said: I think we’ll have to agree to disagree here. I feel you’re expecting a lot more than we’re capable of, especially if you’re using a £60m defender bought by Man Utd or a £22m Champions League player bought by Leicester as an example of the type of players we should be buying, or justifying a £14m Targett being pushed to the bench. In my opinion, Targett isn’t slow and Guilbert is fast. Guilbert is fast, but not rapid like an Adama Traore. Targett is average paced, but not slow like a lumbering Carlos Cuellar trying to backtrack. Guilbert got outpaced by Sterling, Dnepro, Maximin to name a few. Those players are quick. Traore is a fifa cheat player. Could be an Olympic sprinter. No one compares to him in football when it comes to pace. If Guilbert gets outpaced by quick players he can't be that quick can he?! Sorry but as far as premier league fullbacks are concerned Targett is slow! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, Okonokos said: I posted this in the Rashica thread but thought I'd put it here too. For those who haven't seen much of Rashica, this is the best video I've found that pretty much sums him up in a nutshell... He's lethal running at defences in a central position. Such an exciting player. Also, there's this video too. This was the last game of the season, Bremen needed to win and potentially by 4 goals in order to stay up. Rashica was absolutely incredible. Highlights include his goal starting at 1:06, his run through the middle and shot at 1:55 and possibly my favourite, his assist at 2:50. Two things. The commentary is awful. Surprised to hear it's pronounced Rashitza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okonokos Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 Just now, Delphinho123 said: I think we need to be careful with our praise of Luiz. Don't get me wrong, I like him and hold my hands up on getting it wrong with him last season but we do need to all remember that he was poor for the most part in the 30 games leading up to lockdown. I really hope he can continue his form into the new season as he could be a really fantastic player. I just don't think we should be saying he has that position locked down and he has 'made it his own' based off a relatively short spell of good form. I have to agree. I think he was good post lockdown but I fear he's become a little bit overrated. I think he's got a lot of potential and I do rate him highly but he's still got a lot of improvement and hard work ahead. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okonokos Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, Delphinho123 said: Two things. The commentary is awful. Surprised to hear it's pronounced Rashitza. Haha I had the sound off so can't comment. Yeah, it's definitely pronounced Ra-shitz-sa. Edited August 13, 2020 by Okonokos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jas10 Posted August 13, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 13, 2020 5 minutes ago, Okonokos said: I posted this in the Rashica thread but thought I'd put it here too. For those who haven't seen much of Rashica, this is the best video I've found that pretty much sums him up in a nutshell... He's lethal running at defences in a central position. Such an exciting player. Also, there's this video too. This was the last game of the season, Bremen needed to win and potentially by 4 goals in order to stay up. Rashica was absolutely incredible. Highlights include his goal starting at 1:06, his run through the middle and shot at 1:55 and possibly my favourite, his assist at 2:50. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted August 13, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted August 13, 2020 5 minutes ago, Keyblade said: I'm not saying teams don't play with defensive midfielders anymore, just that the "destroyer" role has been phased out for a while. Would you class Busquets as a "destroyer"? Or Thiago Alcantara, Casemiro, De Jong etc? Most of these players are actually quite slight, but they know where to be on the pitch and intercept danger before it materializes. That's where the modern game is now. i'd be interested to see how roy keane would fare in the modern game. not saying he'd be shit, but i'd wager he wouldn't be playing for an elite side. the game's moved on. per your highlighted point, i'd also say this is a strength of marvelous'. luiz is just a more complete player with better pass + shot, but i'd say we have a good enough CDM back up in nakamba i doubt a new CDM is even on our shopping list 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 Just now, tomav84 said: i'd be interested to see how roy keane would fare in the modern game. not saying he'd be shit, but i'd wager he wouldn't be playing for an elite side. the game's moved on. per your highlighted point, i'd also say this is a strength of marvelous'. luiz is just a more complete player with better pass + shot, but i'd say we have a good enough CDM back up in nakamba i doubt a new CDM is even on our shopping list Marv is good at that for sure, it's just the bit that happens after the interception/tackle that he's still a bit shaky on. That's where Luiz' calmness and ability on the ball shine through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: I think we need to be careful with our praise of Luiz. Don't get me wrong, I like him and hold my hands up on getting it wrong with him last season but we do need to all remember that he was poor for the most part in the 30 games leading up to lockdown. I really hope he can continue his form into the new season as he could be a really fantastic player. I just don't think we should be saying he has that position locked down and he has 'made it his own' based off a relatively short spell of good form. He learnt a bit of English and became the main man for the last 10 games. Those 10 matches he was better than Jack. That's not a fluke. He needs to stay focused and motivated for sure, but the ability is there. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Okonokos said: You have the Belgian and Turkish leagues, which we've tried and I think we all agree that we should probably only shop there for up and coming players with potential now. For our main targets for the first team we have to be looking at La Liga, Serie A and the Bundesliga, maybe Ligue 1 too. Out of those leagues, I'd say the Bundesliga is most similar to the Premier League in terms of style. I'd have more confidence in a player making the transition from the Bundesliga to the Premier League than any other league. Also, yes it's a great league to watch. I love it and find it more entertaining than the PL. Agree however if there is clearly an exceptional player in a poor league (Holland/Portugal/Belgium/Austria/Turkey) it is worth going for them 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayk Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 Genuine question here, if according to some posters on here the traditional enforcer type of DCM is outdated would those same posters think our MF would be overrun if our MF three were Luiz, Jack and SJM (Jack being more advanced Luiz and SJM more defensive)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 59 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said: £20m is a lot of money for a goalkeeper, we only paid £8m for Heaton, we got value for money in the short term Wonder what Copenhagen would want for their keeper?.. Dont know anything about about him, Think it's Johnstone or something similar, Has to be One of the best keeper performances I've seen when they played Utd this week, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, tomav84 said: i'd be interested to see how roy keane would fare in the modern game. not saying he'd be shit, but i'd wager he wouldn't be playing for an elite side. the game's moved on. per your highlighted point, i'd also say this is a strength of marvelous'. luiz is just a more complete player with better pass + shot, but i'd say we have a good enough CDM back up in nakamba i doubt a new CDM is even on our shopping list Agree with that except the Keane comment. That guy was a very good short passer also read the game so well. Always in that easy 10 yard pass range for his teammates. Relentless workrate, ultra aggression, mean tackler. That guy went toe to toe with Patrick Viera and always held his own. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, Kingman said: Wonder what Copenhagen would want for their keeper?.. Dont know anything about about him, Think it's Johnstone or something similar, Has to be One of the best keeper performances I've seen when they played Utd this week, I think buying players from Scandinavia has it’s benefits, the players are cheap and bargains can be found there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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