TRO Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 My strategy would be to sniff around the fringe players of the top clubs......players who are frustrated at not getting games.....sometimes through personality clashes with the coach or poor appraisal by the coach. Top clubs can't play all their stars and we can use leverage to offer them game time......a few of these shocks and the mould of intent will be set, we will then start getting better players to sit up and take notice. We have to be intrepid and stop flirting with lower league players. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2003 Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 Just now, TRO said: My strategy would be to sniff around the fringe players of the top clubs......players who are frustrated at not getting games.....sometimes through personality clashes with the coach or poor appraisal by the coach. Top clubs can't play all their stars and we can use leverage to offer them game time......a few of these shocks and the mould of intent will be set, we will then start getting better players to sit up and take notice. We have to be intrepid and stop flirting with lower league players. Like when we snapped up Djemba-Djemba 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 40 minutes ago, paul514 said: Which is exactly why you buy sub 26 preferably sub 24 for the sell on values Dosen't always work though just because they're young. Seems we're trying to loan out Nakamba now to increase his value as we certainly wouldn't get close to the 12m we paid last summer, same for Wes although of course injury played a big part there. Southampton last summer signed full time Danny Ings for 18m. Given his goalscoring form they could easily sell him for double if they so wished this summer. He is 28 years old. Leicester could've sold Vardy for big money to Arsenal in 2016 when he was 29 but he didn't want to go. I'd have no trouble signing a 29 year old striker who was motivated. COuld score us 15-20 goals, get us into top half and then we move him on for a similar fee. Better than getting a Hogan who we just endlessly loan out until end of his contract anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said: Excluding Australia and Turkey as 'not really Asia' and Easah Suliman as being English, I don't think we've ever had an Asian player have we? As others have said, German clubs seem to make Korean and Japanese players work, so I can't see why they couldn't work over here as well. Neil Taylor Edited August 5, 2020 by mikeyp102 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyp Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 7 minutes ago, TRO said: My strategy would be to sniff around the fringe players of the top clubs......players who are frustrated at not getting games.....sometimes through personality clashes with the coach or poor appraisal by the coach. Top clubs can't play all their stars and we can use leverage to offer them game time......a few of these shocks and the mould of intent will be set, we will then start getting better players to sit up and take notice. We have to be intrepid and stop flirting with lower league players. Totally agree. I'm sure Ollie Watkins is a top player, but we should be aiming higher. Not a slight on him, it's just....Brentford. We got burned once with Hogan, and he, like Watkins scored truckloads for them. They are not your run of the mill club. They do things very differently to most and in their case, appearances can actually be deceptive. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Johnnyp said: The trade off is the key word. I'm sure their data and analytics people wouldn't of brought up pontus jansson but there has to be a human and emotional element to decision making also at times. I think they would of been worse off without him. One thing data and analytics can't account for or assess are the intangibles - ,responsibility, bottle, bravery. Brentford had none of those yesterday and the last 2 games of the season also. The way they work is admirable and they do it because they have to gain an edge because they haven't the financial muscle to compete with others, but clearly, it isn't bulletproof. But those intangibles ( and more)are in clear evidence in all the top teams.....its what I call the latent attributes, the unmentionables or the givens......some say "all teams have that"....well they don't. a great saying quoted by A Villan recently " Hard work beats talent, when talent fails to work hard"......thats a simple way of putting it, but physicality and mentality, plays a much bigger part than some fans are willing to admit....and still prevalent in todays game, despite the referring restrictions on tackling. some of us older fans, were brought up on it......many said Ipswich were the better side when we won the league, they were the eye candy and beat us 3 times that season the double and a cup game a Villa Park......I would bet my last shilling, they would not have lifted the European Cup, had they won the league......When asked if we deserved it Shankly said " any team that wins 26 games in a season deserves it"....He never mentioned the spectacle, it was all about the winning. Edited August 5, 2020 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyp Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said: Excluding Australia and Turkey as 'not really Asia' and Easah Suliman as being English, I don't think we've ever had an Asian player have we? As others have said, German clubs seem to make Korean and Japanese players work, so I can't see why they couldn't work over here as well. I think it's the physicality. Bundesliga is not nearly as physical or as fast as the premier league. Always see lots of Polish and Croatians too wind up in Serie A also, technically very good players but the pace of the game is much slower. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, Johnnyp said: Totally agree. I'm sure Ollie Watkins is a top player, but we should be aiming higher. Not a slight on him, it's just....Brentford. We got burned once with Hogan, and he, like Watkins scored truckloads for them. They are not your run of the mill club. They do things very differently to most and in their case, appearances can actually be deceptive. whats the saying......" All that glitters is not Gold" I think some of our fans have their heads turned by Brentford, I think as eye catching as they can be......is a mistake for us to closely follow. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 3 hours ago, VillaCas said: Percy is normally very accurate! I hope your gut feeling is right but I suspect that big names are some way down the road. For this season signing 4 or 5 solid, quality £20-£25m players will give us the improvement we desire Is he? Genuine question how many did he call last summer? I seem to remember most came out the blue or from foreign media. The club rightly keeps its card close to its chest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Adam2003 said: Like when we snapped up Djemba-Djemba There are always going to be exceptions to every rule.....Alex Ferguson himself had his share of damp squibs.....but he got more right than wrong. sadly in the last 10 years or so.....we have got more wrong than right. Edited August 5, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 10 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said: Neil Taylor Good point, though I guess I'm discounting him on the Suliman rule. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 12 minutes ago, VillaChris said: Dosen't always work though just because they're young. Seems we're trying to loan out Nakamba now to increase his value as we certainly wouldn't get close to the 12m we paid last summer, same for Wes although of course injury played a big part there. Southampton last summer signed full time Danny Ings for 18m. Given his goalscoring form they could easily sell him for double if they so wished this summer. He is 28 years old. Leicester could've sold Vardy for big money to Arsenal in 2016 when he was 29 but he didn't want to go. I'd have no trouble signing a 29 year old striker who was motivated. COuld score us 15-20 goals, get us into top half and then we move him on for a similar fee. Better than getting a Hogan who we just endlessly loan out until end of his contract anyway. My suggested Strategy.....just a shame we was not in a position to compete for him when he left Liverpool.....but thats the type of signing, I am advocating. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyp Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, TRO said: whats the saying......" All that glitters is not Gold" I think some of our fans have their heads turned by Brentford, I think as eye catching as they can be......is a mistake for us to closely follow. And for all their drooling out the side of your mouth football, the funny thing is , their sole achievement in recent history was promotion from league one under Warburton which predated their moneyball , data/analytics approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7392craig Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 I’m calling Coutinho just because it’s so bonkers and out of the blue I can see it happening. If any years the year for something strange to happen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, Johnnyp said: And for all their drooling out the side of your mouth football, the funny thing is , their sole achievement in recent history was promotion from league one under Warburton which predated their moneyball , data/analytics approach. Johnny....I am not advocating dumping analytical data, its a crucial tool, in due dilligence.....but its not on its own, the be all and end all.....it helps to point the recruiter in the right direction. There is far too much geographical area to cover now and the competition to consider, to do it like the old days......but to think of it as a silver bullet is foolish. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, Johnnyp said: And for all their drooling out the side of your mouth football, the funny thing is , their sole achievement in recent history was promotion from league one under Warburton which predated their moneyball , data/analytics approach. There are lessons to be learnt from Brentford, but to follow them explicitly would be foolish IMV Aston Villa has far more about itself institutionally, and we should exploit it better. Edited August 6, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-R Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 1 hour ago, smg said: You mean players like Veretout, Amavi, Gueye, Gollini , Ayew, who we clearly didn’t give time to, and also the likes of Wesley, Nakamba and ........... the next player we sign who doesn’t match Messi in his first 5 matches so must be shit. The fan base as a whole has to be more patient. We cannot just buy a team, Man City, Chelsea did it but things have moved on, we need to be patient No we cant just buy a team full of the big name players and I didnt say we could, that's obvious. We can however look to bring in one or two big names to put round Jack and improve the quality right there because he needs better round him, if were only looking at buying three or four players then it shouldnt be a problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyp Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, 7392craig said: I’m calling Coutinho just because it’s so bonkers and out of the blue I can see it happening. If any years the year for something strange to happen... Can you ask him for that fiver i lent him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyp Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, TRO said: There are lessons to be leant from Brentford, but to follow them explicitly would be foolish IMV Aston Villa has far more about itself institutionally, and we should exploit it better. Exactly. Brentford work the way they do because if they didn't they'd be about as relevant in London as Leyton Orient. The had to work outside the box. They didn't choose to just to be fashionable. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyp Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 11 minutes ago, TRO said: Johnny....I am not advocating dumping analytical data, its a crucial tool, in due dilligence.....but its not on its own, the be all and end all.....it helps to point the recruiter in the right direction. There is far too much geographical area to cover now and the competition to consider, to do it like the old days......but to think of it as a silver bullet is foolish. Exactly. Live scouting, to some degree, will always be a key component. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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