Summer Transfers Window 2020

[thunderball]

13 minutes ago, Adam2003 said:

The first sentence here is true. The second is not. It’s nothing like a loan. You would never look at Adams Traore’s time here and career since and say “Villa basically had him on loan from Barcelona.”

All the risk is with the buying club: if they slightly work out they buy them back, you’ve paid for their game time and development only for the selling club to buy back the completed player at a bargain price.

Luiz is one a handful of players we are rewarding with improved deals, they are the back bone of the first team. Man City couldn’t give him a game and after two years and say 50+ starts, he is established, now a senior Brazilian international and will be gone for £25-30m when he will likely be worth £50m, maybe more. Now money doesn’t really matter to us fortunately, but we will have lost a key player having developed him for Man City, or worse for them to trade on. We then have to find a replacement with all the risk, cost and delay that brings.

With these deals you never really own the player unless they fail to live up to expectation, then you are stuck with them.

Edited September 20, 2020 by thunderball

[Adam2003]

16 minutes ago, thunderball said:

All the risk is with the buying club: if they slightly work out they buy them back, you’ve paid for their game time and development only for the selling club to buy back the completed player at a bargain price.

Luiz is one a handful of players we are rewarding with improved deals, they are the back bone of the first team. Man City couldn’t give him a game and after two years and say 50+ starts, he is established, now a senior Brazilian international and will be gone for £25-30m when he will likely be worth £50m, maybe more. Now money doesn’t really matter to us fortunately, but we will have lost a key player having developed him for Man City, or worse for them to trade on. We then have to find a replacement with all the risk, cost and delay that brings.

With these deals you never really own the player unless they fail to live up to expectation, then you are stuck with them.

I understand all that. But in a worst case scenario getting paid ~£15m to develop a player you MAYBE lose (but probably don’t, as probably less 10% of buy back deals are ever activated) is entirely different to paying for the privilege of having someone for nine months who then definitely goes back.

I don’t want to sell him but we might turn around tomorrow and sell him to Barcelona for £50m if City don’t get involved (which teams actually very rarely do with their buybacks as noted above). You can’t do that with a loan. Same as we swapped Traore for Adomah. Couldn’t have done that with a loan. They are still an asset you have even if it’s not ideal. And in the worst case you just lose them for a bit less money than they are worth.

Edit: it’s more like giving a player a low release clause in their contract than it is like a loan.

Edited September 20, 2020 by Adam2003

[thunderball]

@Adam2003 but when we sold Adama he was rubbish, Barcelona were not bothered. And if Barcelona wanted to buy Luiz for £50m, Man City would exercise their option and flip him on for a profit as they have done before.

I would just rather we don’t entertain those sorts of deals again.

Now what do you think of Chris Mepham?

[paul514]

1 hour ago, Rolta said:

What if it's down to the club and the transfer fee? You know that's possible though, so why say it like you have?

That is the least likely explanation 

[paul514]

14 minutes ago, thunderball said:

@Adam2003 but when we sold Adama he was rubbish, Barcelona were not bothered. And if Barcelona wanted to buy Luiz for £50m, Man City would exercise their option and flip him on for a profit as they have done before.

I would just rather we don’t entertain those sorts of deals again.

Now what do you think of Chris Mepham?

It only last two years so unless they do it this season the he is ours.

[paul514]

4 hours ago, VillaChris said:

Miliojevic only on bench for Crystal Palace yesterday, not sure if he's carrying an injury or out of favour. Would be good pick up for DM position and I assume they'd let him go for 15m so that's one I'd target.

I noticed him on the bench and thought it was weird too, he’s supposed to be one of their best players isn’t he?

[Sam-AVFC]

43 minutes ago, thunderball said:

@Adam2003 but when we sold Adama he was rubbish, Barcelona were not bothered. And if Barcelona wanted to buy Luiz for £50m, Man City would exercise their option and flip him on for a profit as they have done before.

I would just rather we don’t entertain those sorts of deals again.

Now what do you think of Chris Mepham?

Would be weird for him to agree to go through 2 sets of transfers with all the paperwork involved, 2 sets of agents & lawyers fees etc as a pawn when he could simply turn down the move back to Man City and ask us to accept the Barcelona bid.

[Rolta]

47 minutes ago, paul514 said:

That is the least likely explanation 

Are you mistaking your opinion for knowledge by any chance?

[Adam2003]

1 hour ago, thunderball said:

@Adam2003 but when we sold Adama he was rubbish, Barcelona were not bothered. And if Barcelona wanted to buy Luiz for £50m, Man City would exercise their option and flip him on for a profit as they have done before.

I would just rather we don’t entertain those sorts of deals again.

Now what do you think of Chris Mepham?

Are we linked with him? I was sad to miss out on him when he went to Bournemouth but haven’t really seen him since.

[thunderball]

1 minute ago, Adam2003 said:

Are we linked with him? I was sad to miss out on him when he went to Bournemouth but haven’t really seen him since.

Yes, quite a lot of rumours linking him past few days (the only CB we are linked with)

[nepal_villan]

I am reading some of the prices quoted for potential transfers around the continent and it seems like we are paying over odds for the players we are bringing in. Don't get me wrong, I am mostly happy with the players we have signed, I just wonder if our negotiation skills are lacking. Combined seems like we paid about  £20-25M more than the market value for the players we have signed so far. I know it's not my money, but you have to assume the club has a budget and this outlay could be used in other areas.

[Kiwivillan]

3 minutes ago, nepal_villan said:

I am reading some of the prices quoted for potential transfers around the continent and it seems like we are paying over odds for the players we are bringing in. Don't get me wrong, I am mostly happy with the players we have signed, I just wonder if our negotiation skills are lacking. Combined seems like we paid about  £20-25M more than the market value for the players we have signed so far. I know it's not my money, but you have to assume the club has a budget and this outlay could be used in other areas.

Webster a CB cost +20 mil last season from Bristol to Brighton. We haven't overpaid, people just aren't used to PL transfer deals since the big TV money injection

Edited September 20, 2020 by Kiwivillan

[Icarium]

4 minutes ago, nepal_villan said:

I am reading some of the prices quoted for potential transfers around the continent and it seems like we are paying over odds for the players we are bringing in. Don't get me wrong, I am mostly happy with the players we have signed, I just wonder if our negotiation skills are lacking. Combined seems like we paid about  £20-25M more than the market value for the players we have signed so far. I know it's not my money, but you have to assume the club has a budget and this outlay could be used in other areas.

I suspect we are paying over the odds for players currently, but its a product of our situation. Its been well publicised we have money to spend, and its well known we scraped survival last season and therefore we have to improve. Weakens our negotiating position with selling clubs as they know we can't just keep using the squad we have

[paul514]

1 hour ago, Rolta said:

Are you mistaking your opinion for knowledge by any chance?

When talking about chance no I am not.

the likely hood isn’t about the fee as it is what we have been paying for lesser players, the player is/was obviously keen to join red bull and has decided to wait for his options to narrow before deciding what to do.

We have had a long standing interest in this player if he was keen to come to us he would have done.

[paul514]

57 minutes ago, nepal_villan said:

I am reading some of the prices quoted for potential transfers around the continent and it seems like we are paying over odds for the players we are bringing in. Don't get me wrong, I am mostly happy with the players we have signed, I just wonder if our negotiation skills are lacking. Combined seems like we paid about  £20-25M more than the market value for the players we have signed so far. I know it's not my money, but you have to assume the club has a budget and this outlay could be used in other areas.

The fee is decided by the selling club due to their situation and we have paid the fees we are happy to in our situation.

Nothing more can be said about it really.

[KH**]

Wednesday is nearly here 

[Rolta]

10 hours ago, paul514 said:

When talking about chance no I am not.

the likely hood isn’t about the fee as it is what we have been paying for lesser players, the player is/was obviously keen to join red bull and has decided to wait for his options to narrow before deciding what to do.

We have had a long standing interest in this player if he was keen to come to us he would have done.

Unless we were haggling over the fee with Bremen, which is massively possible despite your expressing of your opinion. Look at Watkins for example—do you not think Watkins wanted to come to us? So what was the hold up there? Considering how much we spent on him, you'd imagine it was the fee Brentford were asking for.

[nick76]

2 minutes ago, Rolta said:

Unless we were haggling over the fee with Bremen, which is massively possible despite your expressing of your opinion. Look at Watkins for example—do you not think Watkins wanted to come to us? So what was the hold up there? Considering how much we spent on him, you'd imagine it was the fee Brentford were asking for.

Could be agents fee, waiting to buy their replacement for him, sell on clauses or Rashica pay out from his WB contract considering he didn’t legally ask for a transfer.  These are among examples that aren’t to do with the payment fee.

[cheltenham_villa]

13 hours ago, Adam2003 said:

I understand all that. But in a worst case scenario getting paid ~£15m to develop a player you MAYBE lose (but probably don’t, as probably less 10% of buy back deals are ever activated) is entirely different to paying for the privilege of having someone for nine months who then definitely goes back.

I don’t want to sell him but we might turn around tomorrow and sell him to Barcelona for £50m if City don’t get involved (which teams actually very rarely do with their buybacks as noted above). You can’t do that with a loan. Same as we swapped Traore for Adomah. Couldn’t have done that with a loan. They are still an asset you have even if it’s not ideal. And in the worst case you just lose them for a bit less money than they are worth.

Edit: it’s more like giving a player a low release clause in their contract than it is like a loan.

One other big difference, the player gets a choice as well.

It's a buy back clause with agreed fee. The key bit is to make the player feels special, show the intent of the club and make it so he doesn't want to return. 

Difficult I know.

[mikeyp102]

Think we are still lacking players. It will only take an injury to McGinn/Luiz for us to really struggle again. 
Hopefully, it’s a busy few days for the board.