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Relegation thread


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11 minutes ago, TRO said:

We sign good players too infrequently, but are a magnet for average joe's......and we wonder why we can't progress sufficiently to establish a foothold in the Prem.

We went for quantity in the summer rather than quality.

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18 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

We went for quantity in the summer rather than quality.

Its true, but that line has been rolled out before.....we had the french invasion and that same line was claimed....and it all went south.

Its being going on for some time now.

The summer was and has been a result of the problem.....not necessarily the problem itself...

For over 10 years we have signed questionable players.....even MON only got a handful out of c Thirty eight he signed.

Its been an issue that the club has wrestled with for some time, but each change they think they have it right.

You would need Bill Gates as owner, to deal with our in effective signings.

Edited by TRO
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10 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

We went for quantity in the summer rather than quality.

 

That is the case, but I don't subscribe to the theory, that one necessarily excludes the other.

There is plenty of instances in the league of expensive duff signings.

I would have had no more confidence, if they had of signed 3 x £30 mill players.

We just don't seem to know how to blend.

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, TRO said:

 

That is the case, but I don't subscribe to the theory, that one necessarily excludes the other.

There is plenty of instances in the league of expensive duff signings.

I would have had no more confidence, if they had of signed 3 x £30 mill players.

We just don't seem to know how to blend.

 

 

 

I thought with Purslow on board and these promising owners things would be different but we have to be honest and say the summer window hasn't worked out very well.

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We could of  made different signings but the issue was always going to be getting 11 players together to form a team almost from scratch unlike say Shef United or Wolves the season before you went up and added to what they already had.

We also decided at in Summer not to loan players to train them up for others and pay a fee to do it as Bournmouth have done in Loaning Wilson.

I think also if we hadn't had to get replacements in Jan to cover injuries we would of been able to do better business , I suspect we may have still brought in Samatta to backup/pay alongside  Wesley.  

 

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When we manage to stay up this season I'll be expecting the club to bring in quality in the next window.  We had to go for quantity previously otherwise we'd have been playing a team full of kids.

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We'd have finished bottom under Bruce had we gone up under the clown car ownership of Xia. It would have been a rebuild either way, and Bruce was in no position to create something sustainable, and financially, we'd be looking at more loans and Lambert-budget signings.

It doesn't excuse the position we find ourselves in, but the rebuild had direction and ideas, if lacking in quality and execution. Many players still need to adapt, and I think Smith made mistakes in not recruiting better fullbacks to cover for Guilbert on the right. There's been naivity in the tactics and individual performances, but coming up via the playoffs was going to hamstrung the club either way.

Edited by The_Steve
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19 hours ago, meregreen said:

We have had a habit of signing players that their clubs are happy to offload. There’s a reason for that. Too many of them are not good enough.

But as soon as we come sniffing, they want to keep them i.e Mings and they want to play hard ball with us....  14 mill for Targett was OTT.

It just seems to me our desperation preceeds us and we end up paying through the nose.

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22 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

We'd have finished bottom under Bruce had we gone up under the clown car ownership of Xia. It would have been a rebuild either way, and Bruce was in no position to create something sustainable, and financially, we'd be looking at more loans and Lambert-budget signings.

It doesn't excuse the position we find ourselves in, but the rebuild had direction and ideas, if lacking in quality and execution. Many players still need to adapt, and I think Smith made mistakes in not recruiting better fullbacks to cover for Guilbert on the right. There's been naivity in the tactics and individual performances, but coming up via the playoffs was going to hamstrung the club either way.

The midfield signings have not been effective either, that too has played a huge part in our struggle.

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19 hours ago, meregreen said:

We have had a habit of signing players that their clubs are happy to offload. There’s a reason for that. Too many of them are not good enough.

Paul McGrath was an unwanted player.

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9 minutes ago, TRO said:

But as soon as we come sniffing, they want to keep them i.e Mings and they want to play hard ball with us....  14 mill for Targett was OTT.

It just seems to me our desperation preceeds us and we end up paying through the nose.

In Mings case thats the merry go round of transfers , Bournmouth demand that fee as they themselves are paying huge fee's Solanke was 20 mil and hadn't  scored a PL goal before joining them.

It's also easy to play hard ball when 1) They know we not just want but need players 2) It's well know we have rich owners 

In last 3 years you can argue in purchasing only McGinn we got a good deal on price wise 

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13 hours ago, Nabby said:

We could of  made different signings but the issue was always going to be getting 11 players together to form a team almost from scratch unlike say Shef United or Wolves the season before you went up and added to what they already had.

We also decided at in Summer not to loan players to train them up for others and pay a fee to do it as Bournmouth have done in Loaning Wilson.

I think also if we hadn't had to get replacements in Jan to cover injuries we would of been able to do better business , I suspect we may have still brought in Samatta to backup/pay alongside  Wesley.  

 

I am dubious of that claim.

If we had followed the path that Sheff Utd have taken in the context of Div 1>championship>Premiership....with much the same squad

we would have been changing players like billyho.....citing the not good enough argument as a stock answer.

We sign far too many that don't work out.....that can be the wrong signings or the inability of the coach to blend them in to a team.

I do think we clamour for talent at the expense of character......Sheff Utd seem to prioritise character in front of talent....many comments about them have turned to luckbeing their main factor, I think they have just made the right choices.

I think we are where we are as a result of our recruitment decision making.

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10 minutes ago, TreeVillan said:

Paul McGrath was an unwanted player.

But not for footballing reasons.....SAF always rated Macca.

He was trying to break up the drinking club.

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10 minutes ago, Nabby said:

In Mings case thats the merry go round of transfers , Bournmouth demand that fee as they themselves are paying huge fee's Solanke was 20 mil and hadn't  scored a PL goal before joining them.

It's also easy to play hard ball when 1) They know we not just want but need players 2) It's well know we have rich owners 

In last 3 years you can argue in purchasing only McGinn we got a good deal on price wise 

We can both quote individual examples, but its the trend we need to get right.

albion are tight fisted, when it comes to transfers.....mostly want to sell expensive and buy cheap.

We need a few characters and they are not always expensive.

Edited by TRO
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2 minutes ago, TRO said:

I am dubious of that claim.

If we had followed the path that Sheff Utd have taken in the context of Div 1>championship>Premiership....with much the same squad

we would have been changing players like billyho.....citing the not good enough argument as a stock answer.

We sign far too many that don't work out.....that can be the wrong signings or the inability of the coach to blend them in to a team.

I do think we clamour for talent at the expense of character......Sheff Utd seem to prioritise character in front of talent....many comments about them have turned to luckbeing their main factor, I think they have just made the right choices.

I think we are where we are as a result of our recruitment decision making.

What Shef United have in the first place is Wilder who is a very good manager who built a squad thats stayed together and worked up the 2 leagues and into the PL

In the same time we went through relegation , 2 owners and 3 managers.In Xia case we were literally just thowing money at any player who had a good record or was a name ie Terry.They built steadily and Wilder has them well coached.

I think now we have tried to apply long term thinking but ironically we have now neglected the short term which is why we are where we are.

Thats now also forget Shef United spent 60 mil this season as well they just didn't need to rebuilt most of the team.

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2 minutes ago, Nabby said:

What Shef United have in the first place is Wilder who is a very good manager who built a squad thats stayed together and worked up the 2 leagues and into the PL

In the same time we went through relegation , 2 owners and 3 managers.In Xia case we were literally just thowing money at any player who had a good record or was a name ie Terry.They built steadily and Wilder has them well coached.

I think now we have tried to apply long term thinking but ironically we have now neglected the short term which is why we are where we are.

Thats now also forget Shef United spent 60 mil this season as well they just didn't need to rebuilt most of the team.

I accept all that.

I just happen to think if Dean Smith had of signed an effective CDM who could dictate play and dominate midfield.....we would have been far better balanced.

Personally, I am not opposed to 2 with combative qualities, with one protecting the back four and winning aerial balls and a more creative one to link play......I don't see that from Nakamba and Luiz, whether it will come, i have no idea.

Sheff utd are spending a bit now.....but the main platform is there and has been there from the start.

I was expecting us to do something similar.....but we have this offensive first mentality....great on the eye, just difficult to get results in this league.

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31 minutes ago, TRO said:

But not for footballing reasons.....SAF always rated Macca.

He was trying to break up the drinking club.

The drinking culture didn't change until Wenger arrived and Fergie realised he needed to change it to if he wasn't going to fall behind. Keano and Neville talked about it I believe.

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I think we have lucked out because i think most of us was hailing the signing of Douglas Luiz.  I thought him with Jack and McGinn would be a really good trio.  McGinn got injured and Luiz hasnt yet stepped up.  We had Nakamba as back up and he hasnt really done it yet either.  Then the same in defence, a partner(s) next to Mings hasnt yet worked out with Hause, Konsa and Engels.  I did see glimpses of a good partnership between Mings and Engels for a time but they still conceded too many goals but something did look ok with it.  Never been convinced with Hause, Mings and Konsa trio, it just felt like Mings overplayed, trying to cover deficiencies in the other two.  I'm not convinced by Hause, I can only remember one game that he played really well in, whereas Konsa is still raw so many he might have something in the future.

Watching Villa, I have never been that worried this season about scoring goals so was surprised how much stick Wes got......I understand all the points people make but the real problems at Villa were conceding goals and for me that was that our midfield was too easy to walk through and then all they had to get pass was Mings because he had no real support. 

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