HanoiVillan Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 I hope we don't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 57 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Surely we'll be following suit and going for a similar "circuit-breaker" soon? I think so unless current measures reduce the R Rate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 I've not really kept up to date with things recently, isn't the problem with a 'circuit breaker' in England because it's so much more vast than the other nations that you will probably end up locking down a load of places that don't really need to be? It would create social and economic problems that you can largely avoid, even two weeks for some businesses might be the difference between staying open and closing for good. Logically having targeted lockdowns seems better to me, albeit far from ideal and extremely difficult to enforce. You've probably all had this same argument several times that I've not read, if so apologies. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 18 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: I've not really kept up to date with things recently, isn't the problem with a 'circuit breaker' in England because it's so much more vast than the other nations that you will probably end up locking down a load of places that don't really need to be? It would create social and economic problems that you can largely avoid, even two weeks for some businesses might be the difference between staying open and closing for good. Logically having targeted lockdowns seems better to me, albeit far from ideal and extremely difficult to enforce. You've probably all had this same argument several times that I've not read, if so apologies. I think that's broadly right, and a good point. I also want one of the fans of this 'circuit breaker' idea to explain to me how the practical effect of it won't simply be to delay the peak until further into seasonal flu season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I think that's broadly right, and a good point. I also want one of the fans of this 'circuit breaker' idea to explain to me how the practical effect of it won't simply be to delay the peak until further into seasonal flu season. Surely the whole point of it is to delay the peak? If the alternative is do nothing (and I'm absolutely in favour of localised lockdowns instead, but if we're either circuit breaking or doing nothing at all), then the peak is just going to be bigger, surely? We can't just power through it, so I'm not sure it's much of a counter argument that all we're doing is delaying the peak. We're well past the point where eradication is likely in this country, isn't the only goal now to delay things and try to keep the numbers down until there's herd immunity, one way or another? A circuit breaker isn't a one off solution, it's a stalling mechanism, and we may need to do it more than once. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 Rates of new infections are falling again in most U.K. cities apparently. There was a spike when students went back but it’s stabilising again now. Quote As PA Media reports, Nottingham, Manchester, Sheffield and Newcastle are among the cities where the weekly rate of new Covid-19 cases rose rapidly at the end of September, coinciding with the start of the new university term, but where levels are now coming down. The rates have been decreasing for several days, suggesting they are on a downward trend rather than a temporary dip. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2020/oct/19/uk-coronavirus-live-wales-short-fire-break-lockdown-manchester-boris-johnson-covid?page=with:block-5f8d85268f08176e64a8cfc8#block-5f8d85268f08176e64a8cfc8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I think that's broadly right, and a good point. I also want one of the fans of this 'circuit breaker' idea to explain to me how the practical effect of it won't simply be to delay the peak until further into seasonal flu season. It also seems extremely hard to quantify how successful it has been in just two weeks, it takes a few weeks to see virus cases from beginning to end for the most part, you may be out of lockdown before you realise it needed to have been longer and need to go back into it again, or similarly you can't decide halfway through that actually it's not necessary after all as it's not making any difference. Two things seemed pretty certain to me, there was always going to be a second wave come the autumn and universities were going to be massive breeding grounds for the virus. I think targeting places that have universities for much stricter rules should have been thought about, trying to make a biosecure bubble if possible, but there are loads of places where things aren't much worse than before so to make them take a one-size-fits-all approach seems a bit daft. Edited October 19, 2020 by sharkyvilla 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 3 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: I think that's broadly right, and a good point. I also want one of the fans of this 'circuit breaker' idea to explain to me how the practical effect of it won't simply be to delay the peak until further into seasonal flu season. I don’t think you’ll find very many fans. I suspect it’s more a case of ‘do nothing’ or to ‘do something’. We’ve had a lockdown in my local area with the weekly rate at somewhere around 50 per 100,000. The result (possibly, I don’t know how you work out cause and effect in all of this), is that we are a month on and still at about 50 or so. Which means the mega hospital down the road is still only dealing with the outbreak elsewhere, and not having us adding to it. The current alternative to that apppears to be to try and persuade everyone back in to buses and trains and offices and bars and shops and colleges and gyms etc.. Then stare in wonder at the surprise spike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 19, 2020 Moderator Share Posted October 19, 2020 3 hours ago, sharkyvilla said: I think targeting places that have universities for much stricter rules should have been thought about, trying to make a biosecure bubble if possible, but there are loads of places where things aren't much worse than before so to make them take a one-size-fits-all approach seems a bit daft. Do you know many places without a university? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted October 19, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted October 19, 2020 Just now, bickster said: Do you know many places without a university? There used to be lots, when universities and degrees actually meant something. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 19, 2020 Moderator Share Posted October 19, 2020 Just now, mjmooney said: There used to be lots, when universities and degrees actually meant something. Yes I know, we agree on that but even if back then was transported to now, you'd have to include Polys and HE / Teacher training colleges in the same rules as Uni's The idea of having "a biosecure bubble" at Liverpool University with its 25,000 undergraduates is just something out of Star Trek as far as I'm concerned 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 No University in Blaenau Gwent, or Port Talbot, or Neath, or Flint. Let’s have a hard lock down on students, that’ll fix it. Still fascinating how quickly they were blamed. Actually started happening before they went back to Uni, so hats off to whoever thought to shift the blame on to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted October 19, 2020 Author Share Posted October 19, 2020 First they came for the footballers..., then they came for the Uni students... Who's next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperTed Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 13 minutes ago, villakram said: First they came for the footballers..., then they came for the Uni students... Who's next? Judging by the usual narrative of the British press, it’ll likely be non-white people they blame. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 Have the troops been deployed to the streets of Manchester yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted October 20, 2020 Moderator Share Posted October 20, 2020 16 minutes ago, Genie said: Have the troops been deployed to the streets of Manchester yet? They'll get shot to **** bits up here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 20, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted October 20, 2020 8 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said: They'll get shot to **** bits up here. SAS v Moss Side... Score draw? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted October 20, 2020 Moderator Share Posted October 20, 2020 5 minutes ago, Chindie said: SAS v Moss Side... Score draw? Got to fancy the Yardies with home advantage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 20, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted October 20, 2020 Just now, NurembergVillan said: Got to fancy the Yardies with home advantage. ...man dem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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