peterms Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 There are suggestions that the virus was developed deliberately, perhaps as a treatment for something, and that something went wrong. For example, here is a patent taken out a year ago for presumably a different coronavirus, developed to treat bronchial disease in poultry. Quote Coronavirus Abstract The present invention provides a live, attenuated coronavirus comprising a variant replicase gene encoding polyproteins comprising a mutation in one or more of non-structural protein(s) (nsp)-10, nsp-14, nsp-15 or nsp-16. The coronavirus may be used as a vaccine for treating and/or preventing a disease, such as infectious bronchitis, in a subject. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 6 hours ago, sne said: Read a story that West Ham had a deal agreed for Marco Arnautovic but it fell through as he was not allowed to fly out of China So the ended up signing Bowen for a huge sum and massive contract instead. Didn't he mug them off and leave them about a year ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 First case in New England just announced. Yikes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 (edited) 16 hours ago, peterms said: There are suggestions that the virus was developed deliberately, perhaps as a treatment for something, and that something went wrong. For example, here is a patent taken out a year ago for presumably a different coronavirus, developed to treat bronchial disease in poultry. Careful with stuff like this. Here's the Pirbright Institute's response https://www.pirbright.ac.uk/news/2020/01/pirbright’s-livestock-coronavirus-research-–-your-questions-answered Quote The Pirbright Institute is aware that misinformation regarding the Institute and its research is circulating on social media following an outbreak of a new (novel) coronavirus that infects humans in Wuhan, China. These are the facts regarding our coronavirus research and funding. The Pirbright Institute carries out research on infectious bronchitis virus (IBV), a coronavirus that infects poultry, and porcine deltacoronavirus that infects pigs. Pirbright does not currently work with human coronaviruses. More information on our coronavirus livestock research can be found on our website. The Institute holds Patent no. 10130701 which covers the development of an attenuated (weakened) form of the coronavirus that could potentially be used as a vaccine to prevent respiratory diseases in birds and other animals. Many vaccines are made in this way, from flu to polio. We have not yet developed an IBV vaccine, but research is ongoing. With all due respect, the suggestion in your post is a pretty blatant conspiracy theory, and a quick read of the patent link (and a fairly basic understanding of how vaccines work) would have pointed you in that direction. Took me 2 mins to find the link above debunking it. Edited February 2, 2020 by KentVillan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 5 hours ago, KentVillan said: With all due respect, the suggestion in your post is a pretty blatant conspiracy theory, and a quick read of the patent link (and a fairly basic understanding of how vaccines work) would have pointed you in that direction. Took me 2 mins to find the link above debunking it. There is a conspiracy theory doing the rounds, ie that it was developed as biowarfare. That is very different from what I said. Presumably the PIrbright thing refers to that. The Wuhan research centre does research on viruses which can cross from bats to other animals, I gather, among other things. It is the most biosecure facility in China, and therefore works on the more dangerous things, including things that can cross to humans. It's not a great leap of the imagination, nor a conspiracy theory, to think that some failure in security procedures may have allowed something to escape. In fact, ruling out such a possibility would seem very odd. Why would you discount such a thing, out of hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 2 hours ago, peterms said: There is a conspiracy theory doing the rounds, ie that it was developed as biowarfare. That is very different from what I said. Presumably the PIrbright thing refers to that. The Wuhan research centre does research on viruses which can cross from bats to other animals, I gather, among other things. It is the most biosecure facility in China, and therefore works on the more dangerous things, including things that can cross to humans. It's not a great leap of the imagination, nor a conspiracy theory, to think that some failure in security procedures may have allowed something to escape. In fact, ruling out such a possibility would seem very odd. Why would you discount such a thing, out of hand? The patent linked to in your original post is held by the Pirbright Institute. I discounted the idea that the patent you linked to was evidence of anything sinister. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 1 minute ago, KentVillan said: The patent linked to in your original post is held by the Pirbright Institute. I discounted the idea that the patent you linked to was evidence of anything sinister. Perhaps you have misread what I wrote, and conflated it with something you have read elsewhere. As I said, the Pirbright patent was an example of people developing coronaviruses, in that case of a type different to the one in the news. The point was simply to illustrate that people are developing viruses in various places for various reasons, in support of the notion that the one in question may have been developed and have somehow escaped. To present this as being a suggestion that the Pirbright one is the same, or the cause of the current epidemic, is a distortion of what I wrote, and to then frame it as a "conspiracy theory" is frankly weird. Do you have a view on the possibility that there may be a connection between research on viruses carried by bats in an advanced virology clinic in Wuhan, and the emergence of a virus linked to bats, also in Wuhan, or do you think it's a simple coincidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 17 minutes ago, peterms said: Perhaps you have misread what I wrote, and conflated it with something you have read elsewhere. As I said, the Pirbright patent was an example of people developing coronaviruses, in that case of a type different to the one in the news. The point was simply to illustrate that people are developing viruses in various places for various reasons, in support of the notion that the one in question may have been developed and have somehow escaped. To present this as being a suggestion that the Pirbright one is the same, or the cause of the current epidemic, is a distortion of what I wrote, and to then frame it as a "conspiracy theory" is frankly weird. Do you have a view on the possibility that there may be a connection between research on viruses carried by bats in an advanced virology clinic in Wuhan, and the emergence of a virus linked to bats, also in Wuhan, or do you think it's a simple coincidence? The Pirbright patent is not "an example of people developing coronaviruses". They have taken an existing coronavirus and attenuated it. This is the normal process for developing a vaccine. So why link to it in your original post unless you thought it was evidence that this kind of research may have caused the outbreak? I have no idea on your final question. I don't pretend to know, and, especially given that it's happened in China, I can't imagine it's very easy for amateur internet sleuths to work it out. I was just making a point about the patent you linked to. They've obviously felt the need to put together an entire page debunking it, so it appears to be a conspiracy theory doing the rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 2, 2020 Moderator Share Posted February 2, 2020 20 minutes ago, peterms said: Do you have a view on the possibility that there may be a connection between research on viruses carried by bats in an advanced virology clinic in Wuhan, and the emergence of a virus linked to bats, also in Wuhan, or do you think it's a simple coincidence? Lets see... which of these do you think is the most likely Some super secret virus lab which will no doubt be sealed off to the public with little chance of a virus escaping (because the Chinese aren't THAT stupid and clumsy) or The virus transferred from bat to human via the wet markets in a region with a population of 60 million, these markets are a disaster waiting to happen and its happened before I know where my money's going but I suspect the tin foil runes fall a different way 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 2, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted February 2, 2020 There have been cases of failures at virus labs leading to outbreaks before now. It's possible that's happened here. But it's not the likeliest reason. The outbreak stems back to the market. A market that sold the animals the virus derives from. The market is stocked with live animals from the region, and that's also why the lab is there. They want the same creatures for research. Makes for a nice story but sometimes, bad shit just happens. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 I think it's Trump who has released the virus to destabilize the Chinese economy Anyway, this a pretty good side for keeping track on the progress. They have maps, stats and graphs and all that good stuff I can post here. Quote 2019-nCoV Global Cases by Johns Hopkins CSSE (each point is updated as new cases are identified) Total Confirmed 14,628 https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 2 hours ago, bickster said: Lets see... which of these do you think is the most likely Some super secret virus lab which will no doubt be sealed off to the public with little chance of a virus escaping (because the Chinese aren't THAT stupid and clumsy) or The virus transferred from bat to human via the wet markets in a region with a population of 60 million, these markets are a disaster waiting to happen and its happened before I know where my money's going but I suspect the tin foil runes fall a different way The general view is that the markets are the most likely. However, you'd be foolish to discount possible leaks from the facilities where these things are developed. Perhaps you know that SARS is reported to have escaped from labs on six occasions, four of them in China. And foot and mouth is reported to have escaped some years back from a Pirbright lab, which would help explain why they are very quick to refute any suggestions of a connection between this and their current work. Mistakes happen, even at places dealing with the deadliest things, where the need for the highest levels of security is well understood. Like the two people who caught smallpox in Birmingham Medical School, where the virus was being grown for research. What I find difficult to understand is why some people see a comment about possible mistakes and accidents, and squeal "Conspiracy theory! Tin foil!". A conspiracy is the very opposite of an accident. You do see that, don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 2, 2020 Moderator Share Posted February 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, peterms said: What I find difficult to understand is why some people see a comment about possible mistakes and accidents, and squeal "Conspiracy theory! Tin foil!". A conspiracy is the very opposite of an accident. You do see that, don't you? If it happened in the Lab as you suggest, then it's been covered up. Thats the conspiracy theory, you do see that? it is after all the logical conclusion of your argument. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 A govt run newspaper encouraged people to actually gather for a New Year celebration community dinner near the sight of the wet market when they knew already where the virus came from. Baffling. The face saving cultural reflex in China is almost as dangerous as the virus itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 2, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted February 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, maqroll said: A govt run newspaper encouraged people to actually gather for a New Year celebration community dinner near the sight of the wet market when they knew already where the virus came from. Baffling. The face saving cultural reflex in China is almost as dangerous as the virus itself. ... they wanted it to spread... ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 2, 2020 Moderator Share Posted February 2, 2020 12 minutes ago, Chindie said: ... they wanted it to spread... ... Or it didn't start there at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 (edited) I reckon it’s the Indians. They have spread it so there is an uptake in Indian food worldwide and people stop eating Chinese . Edited February 2, 2020 by Rugeley Villa 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 2, 2020 Moderator Share Posted February 2, 2020 24 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: I reckon it’s the Indians. They have spread it so there is an uptake in Indian food worldwide and people stop eating Chinese . Nah it's the mexicans to get round Trumps wall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, bickster said: Nah it's the mexicans to get round Trumps wall What wall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 2, 2020 Moderator Share Posted February 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: What wall The Great Trump Wall of China obviously, its his prototype for the one on the Mexican border Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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