Generic Virus Thread

[HanoiVillan]

14 minutes ago, blandy said:

Although Bournemouth had a bit of a spike after they opened up there

Woah woah woah.

The BBC article does a good job of addressing whether this can be considered a 'spike' and goes to great effort to put this increase from 1.3 cases per 100,000 people to 2 cases per 100,000 people into context:

'For the week ending 21 June, the area had 1.3 cases for every 100,000 people in Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole. By the week ending 19 July, this had increased to two cases for every 100,000 people. To put that in context, the coronavirus rate in Leicester is currently 70 cases per 100,000 people. This does not mean the crowds didn't bring Covid-19 to the town - just that any arrival of the virus in Bournemouth was not spread significantly . . . To understand whether popular tourist areas have seen a spike recently, we took the 20 most popular holiday spots (relative to their population) in England, as recorded by VisitBritain. Weekly coronavirus rates have dropped or stayed the same in 13 of these areas. There is currently no data for the Isle of Wight for this week. The case rate has increased in Torbay, Devon, and Windsor and Maidenhead, Cumbria, Bath and North East Somerset, and Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole. However, it is important to point out that almost all of these areas have rates substantially below the national case rate in England of around 6.5 per 100,000 people.'

source again: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/53519668

20 minutes ago, blandy said:

The absence of evidence from abroad around beaches being an increased risk can only be based on circumstances in those places, and they are not identical to those in the UK. While there are many similarities, there are also differences. And the Gov't should take account of those differences when formulating advice. Those differences include temperature, density of people on beaches, propensity for some people in the UK to become irresponsible due to alcohol, lack of adherence to social distancing, littering, travel from far away and so on.  And then factor in that in the UK in particular track and trace is not up to speed. it is failing to identify contacts and so on to a necessary degree, so sources of outbreaks are also not being fully identified.

That's it. There's insufficient evidence available to say there's no risk at all or the same risk as abroad, and there are some factors and limited evidence that assembly and such like, by Brits, on British beaches, under British rules is not as low risk as the equivalent situation abroad.

Once again, you keep stating that people drinking at the beach or dropping litter or driving there makes the situation 'not as low risk as the equivalent situation abroad', but the reason I'm accusing you of moralising is because this doesn't seem to be based on an analysis that these actions *actually do* make a difference to viral transmission - I have asked for evidence repeatedly, to no avail - but instead on a feeling of 'but of course they do' or 'they just should shouldn't they'.

I'm going to repeat my plea for people to stop pathologising what appear to be low-risk activities in the fresh air, and to focus instead on the environments where proof of transmission is not hard to come by - factories, care homes, prisons, bars and so on.

[Demitri_C]

56 minutes ago, snowychap said:

That's just the problem. You guess. Before you ran with your 'no sympathy' line, you didn't think about looking in to it, questioning it and thinking about it?

Now that's not to suggest that you should know but simply to point out that you've taken a position (of no sympathy and it's necessarily the right thing and hang the consequences for people) simply on headlines and guesses. If you're comfortable with that then that's up to you but please don't then talk about

, especially when you also go on to talk about 'all wanting a trip abroad' and rubbish like that.

I don't want a trip abroad but I can have sympathy for those adversely affected by the situation (such as the sympathy I have for your situation in having to take a hit on a holiday that you'd paid for) and by calls made after they'd taken a decision especially if they are not aware of all of the potential repercussions (and if they are following Government advice then it's likely that they aren't).

 

No point us pursuing this convo we are not going to agree on it. Thats my stance on this whole situation and you have yours. Im not changing my opinion on that and im not back tracking it on what i aaid in this intance

[StefanAVFC]

Good to see stubbornness over logic is continuing to reign supreme. 

[Demitri_C]

1 hour ago, Seat68 said:

Are you going to lose 2k? The borders aren’t open, if flights resume and the borders are open, then if you choose not to go then you will lose it. As it stands though you can’t go, it is likely to be the same in September and you will get a refund. 

Mate i was meant to go for honeymoon as wedidng was in sept but im not going to travel there.  Its selfish and reckless as i could bring it back with me and infect a friend/family.

Its alot of money but health comes first money 2nd.

[StefanAVFC]

More cases in Uk than Spain, more likely to infect Spanish people going to Spain from UK than vice versa.

Have Spain done to us what we did to them?

Of course not. 100% political. 

[Genie]

It’s hard to keep up with the government advice.

We've gone from stay home to stay safe, then vouchers to encourage eating out, now Bozza is saying we should be eating less.

They'll probably just remind us to use our common sense again soon.

[Genie]

3 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Mate i was meant to go for honeymoon as wedidng was in sept but im not going to travel there.  Its selfish and reckless as i could bring it back with me and infect a friend/family.

Its alot of money but health comes first money 2nd.

Why don’t you rebook it for next year? You might have to pay amendment fees but better than losing £2,000.

[snowychap]

11 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

im not back tracking it

That's obvious, Dem, as you've doubled down on your initial stance and ignored most, if not all, of what I've posted.

 

[ml1dch]

39 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

More cases in Uk than Spain, more likely to infect Spanish people going to Spain from UK than vice versa.

Have Spain done to us what we did to them?

Of course not. 100% political. 

Then again, if it is political I'd wonder whether pissing off hundreds of thousands of voters is really the best bit of politicking you could do.

[Demitri_C]

39 minutes ago, Genie said:

Why don’t you rebook it for next year? You might have to pay amendment fees but better than losing £2,000.

Yeah will try if can but company are aaying we have to wait to see of goes ahead 1st. Cheers fo

 

35 minutes ago, snowychap said:

That's obvious, Dem, as you've doubled down on your initial stance and ignored most, if not all, of what I've posted.

 

I havent. Its not a crime to not agree with it "not ignore" as you allege.

 

[Genie]

2 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Yeah will try if can but company are aaying we have to wait to see of goes ahead 1st. Cheers fo.

You don’t need to wait if you’re willing to pay the amendment fees. The company will let you rebook for free if it turns out you are not allowed to go but if you don’t want to wait you can pay and change it (normal business).

[Demitri_C]

2 minutes ago, Genie said:

You don’t need to wait if you’re willing to pay the amendment fees. The company will let you rebook for free if it turns out you are not allowed to go but if you don’t want to wait you can pay and change it (normal business).

Handy to know thanks genie. I  suspect no one will be flying to us from the uk any gime soon though

Edited July 28, 2020 by Demitri_C

[StefanAVFC]

10 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

Then again, if it is political I'd wonder whether pissing off hundreds of thousands of voters is really the best bit of politicking you could do.

This government could pass a law taxing Tory voters 50% more, and they'd still dutifully vote Tory until they die.

[snowychap]

1 minute ago, Demitri_C said:

I havent. Its not a crime to not agree with it "not ignore" as you allege.

Of course it's not a 'crime' not to agree with someone.

I couldn't give a monkeys if you agree with me or not.

But yes, you have doubled down and, yes, you haven't responded to at least some (or quite probably most) of the points I've made (like the employment rights for people quarantining and isolating and the issue with Government advice on this, like the issue with compliance with requests/advice/instruction to isolate/quarantine, &c.).

[snowychap]

15 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

Then again, if it is political I'd wonder whether pissing off hundreds of thousands of voters is really the best bit of politicking you could do.

Not that I definitely agree with Stefan's line of thinking (though I don't say there couldn't be anything in it) but there's four years for them to forget about it/find excuses for it.

[Demitri_C]

1 minute ago, snowychap said:

Of course it's not a 'crime' not to agree with someone.

I couldn't give a monkeys if you agree with me or not.

But yes, you have doubled down and, yes, you haven't responded to at least some (or quite probably most) of the points I've made (like the employment rights for people quarantining and isolating and the issue with Government advice on this, like the issue with compliance with requests/advice/instruction to isolate/quarantine, &c.).

Relax geez. Why you getting so worked up over nothing yet again? You clearly do care with your '"i dont give a monkeys"

Not sure why your still carrying this on when i said i dont think we should continue this discussion as we dont agree on this whatsoever (that is ok you know your not always going to agree on things snowy. Your not always right just like i am not) 

[snowychap]

 

3 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

You clearly do care with your '"i dont give a monkeys"

Please take the time to read what other people post and consider it before responding.

I said:

6 minutes ago, snowychap said:

I couldn't give a monkeys if you agree with me or not.

--------------

3 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Not sure why your still carrying this on when i said i dont think we should continue this discussion as we dont agree on this whatsoever (that is ok you know your not always going to agree on things snowy. Your not always right just like i am not) 

If you're going to continue to quote me, respond to what I post and try and take a line that it's about something which it isn't then I'll continue to reply.

I'm sorry, Dem, but it's not about 'agreeing' (as per the above post), it is about responding to what other people actually post rather than to something that isn't the case.

Edited July 28, 2020 by snowychap

[Demitri_C]

Just now, snowychap said:

 

Please take the time to read what other people post and consider it before responding.

I said:

 

I did read it and the wording was unnecessary. There is better ways to express your point than saying 'i dont give a monkeys if you agree with me or not"

Not sure why your getting yourself so worked  up. I dont agree with you on this subject you dont agree with me its fine. Thats society its ok to disagree on things. 

[snowychap]

8 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I did read it and the wording was unnecessary. There is better ways to express your point than saying 'i dont give a monkeys if you agree with me or not"

You may have read it but you appear not to have considered it before responding.

Edit: The wording may have appeared unnecessary but it showed the frustration that I was and am feeling given the responses and that you appear to be ignoring what I post each time you respond.

8 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Not sure why your getting yourself so worked  up.

Because you're not bothering to read, consider and try to understand what I am posting as exemplified by posting this again:

8 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I dont agree with you on this subject you dont agree with me its fine.

It is not about whether you and I agree. As I've said I don't care whether you agree with me. I really don't.

I do, however, care that you respond to what I actually post rather than either ignoring things, intentionally trying to say that I am posting something which I am not (especially when I'm pointing out to you where this is not the case) or just not actually engaging with what another poster has said in a considered reply.

Edited July 28, 2020 by snowychap

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

2 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

Considering our awful record on COVID, they would be well within their rights to lock us down ,and have they? 

I think the records for Covid per country will not be fully known for years. 

At one point Holland was in the top 8 for infections and I was getting really scared (Really small country so if it gets hold its all over) ,  now it's a few pages down with hardly any evidence that it is actually happening unless on public transport.

I don't think the UK response has been that bad IMO overall compared to some.  It depends on the population as well,  Germany did well becasue 99.999% of them do exactly what they are told all the time.  If you swapped the people around then the German and UK numbers would look radically different with only the population changed.

The EU won't lock the UK down,  I don't know why but they will do that as a very last resort.  It's like they need the UK for something.