Generic Virus Thread

[VILLAMARV]

 

3 hours ago, LondonLax said:

Could it be that the reason there is hospital capacity is because the NHS was following government advice and not treating the oldest patients?

Exactly. 

2 hours ago, Genie said:

Where is this government advice, and what is the cutoff for being old?

Not a relevant question to the statement made. I suppose it's just "trivial" wording to change the word WAS to IS?

I think most people will understand the importance and relevance to the point being made.

The advice that was has been posted and discussed in the commons. The one you were arguing had no relevance to clinicians and triage decisions if you remember. 

2 hours ago, LondonLax said:

There has been plenty of posts about the triaging policies throughout this thread. 

Quite.

[Stevo985]

2 minutes ago, Genie said:

I think it was presented in a way that (sadly) gave BJ enough wiggle room to shake it off. "it remains very unlikely that people receiving care in a care home will become infected" was the official advice that Boris said wasn't true. It didn't mention the other caveat that was in the document which BJ states the advice was based on the virus not being present in the community. 

That was a different part of the document IIRC

2 minutes ago, Genie said:

Now BJ probably got lucky in the sense that there was some mitigating circumstances and the quote was not fully in context. Its allowed Johnson to turn it around on Starmer. The 10 o'clock news last night didn't pick the story up.

Nothing would make me happier than seeing BJ and his merry men (and women) get shown up for what they are. I think Starmer possibly wasted a good opportunity here and now they are both going to be extra cautious going forwards.

This kind of suggests Starmer didn't go in hard enough. But your original point seemed to be that he was point scoring over a minor issue.
So I'm a bit confused now  

[Genie]

1 minute ago, VILLAMARV said:

Not a relevant question to the statement made

So you think asking for the source of the multiple references to the government policy not to treat old people is not relevant? If its policy, then it exists doesn't it? Easy win.

If it doesn't exist then maybe it should be taken to the conspiracy thread.

[Genie]

7 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

That was a different part of the document IIRC

The Prime Minister seems to think it is relevant enough to publicly tell off Starmer for his comments

8 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

This kind of suggests Starmer didn't go in hard enough. But your original point seemed to be that he was point scoring over a minor issue.
So I'm a bit confused now  

I think Starmer should have picked something better to try and push BJ in front of the bus with. This was a botched assassination attempted. I think he should have not bothered with what was written on the website 3 months ago and managed that particular complaint differently. Now his card is marked. 

[VILLAMARV]

5 minutes ago, Genie said:

So you think asking for the source of the multiple references to the government policy not to treat old people is not relevant? If its policy, then it exists doesn't it? Easy win.

If it doesn't exist then maybe it should be taken to the conspiracy thread.

No. What I think, is what I said. Not what you rephrase it as to suit your needs. 

[foreveryoung]

28 minutes ago, avfcDJ said:

Same here. It was like flu but worse, I collapsed and ended up with pneumonia. The symptoms match everything for Coronavirus. 

I will agree with you guys I too had horrific flu early december like never before even with dizziness which I have never had must have lasted over a month too. Although I believe I had covid recently, had the breathlessness, loss of taste and smell, it was extremely mild. Is this because I have antibodies from december. My Mrs had covid tested positive a week before we knew so I was obviously gonna catch it off her around the house.

Still Mrs is positive after last test which was 5 weeks ago, going into 6 now, doctors have no answers and are asking her to still isolate, but it's crazy, for how long, cant be contagious now surely.

[Dodgyknees]

27 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Glad to hear your ok now mate that sounds horrific

Cheers mate. Pretty scary. I'm not one to panic but I thought I was going to die. There was a horrible feeling of movement in my chest, hard to describe, worse when I was on my back. Couldn't breathe or sleep for weeks. Scared me silly.

Even if it wasn't C19, it was the worst flu thing I've ever had - and I've been hospitalised before! Made worse because my doctors wouldn't prescribe much. Was forced to see a nurse practitioner who wouldn't listen, so I got worse and worse.

Heard recently that she has been suspended due to a number of issues.

But yeah, all my symptoms matched c19, I couldn't taste or smell, ache like hell, dizzy, terrible cough, although my fingers were swollen too. Weird!

Edited May 14, 2020 by avfcDJ

[StefanAVFC]

7 minutes ago, Genie said:

The Prime Minister seems to think it is relevant enough to publicly tell off Starmer for his comments

Johnson, is literally, all bluster.

He'll tell people off for whatever he wants. Regardless of the truthfulness of it.

And certain quarters will nod and say 'yep Johnson told those lefty scum where to stick it' and the world turns around.

[Genie]

7 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said:

No. What I think, is what I said. Not what you rephrase it as to suit your needs. 

Ok, so people say "its policy", I say "where is this policy?", you says its irrelevant. Got it.

[Dodgyknees]

3 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Johnson, is literally, all bluster.

He'll tell people off for whatever he wants. Regardless of the truthfulness of it.

And certain quarters will nod and say 'yep Johnson told those lefty scum where to stick it' and the world turns around.

Yep that's pretty much it. As long as the lefty scum get told off, no matter if Johnson is lying, then all is good for them. Properly brainwashed. A cult of Johnson exists and they can't even see they are voting for what is going to make them worse off. Or maybe they can, bit then lefties lose too so it's a great sacrifice.

[Dodgyknees]

10 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

I will agree with you guys I too had horrific flu early december like never before even with dizziness which I have never had must have lasted over a month too. Although I believe I had covid recently, had the breathlessness, loss of taste and smell, it was extremely mild. Is this because I have antibodies from december. My Mrs had covid tested positive a week before we knew so I was obviously gonna catch it off her around the house.

Still Mrs is positive after last test which was 5 weeks ago, going into 6 now, doctors have no answers and are asking her to still isolate, but it's crazy, for how long, cant be contagious now surely.

Mine was back in November, I guess there could be antibodies - but I'm not sure how long that would last. When I was ill it lasted till early December. Never ever been hit that hard. 

[VILLAMARV]

10 minutes ago, Genie said:

Ok, so people say "its policy", I say "where is this policy?", you says its irrelevant. Got it.

No. What I think, is what I said. Not whatever you rephrase it as.

[andym]

I really don't get the argument about the 'currently no transmission in community' caveat somehow completely undermining Starmer and exonerating Johnson and the Government. Starmer's initial point was that the advice that it was unlikely that people in care homes would become infected remained in place until 12th March. Johnson said the advice didn't say that, which is simply a lie.

But even if he tries to justify the advice as appropriate on there being no current transmission 1) it was in UK by the 12th of March so the no current transmission point is highly dubious 2) why are you waiting until its in the community to warn care homes that people are likely to become infected?

This isn't something out the blue, we had prior warning of how virulent it is from other counties, we knew it would hit us at some point and care homes are obviously highly vulnerable places to things like this.

It's like knowing there's a hurricane off the coast and its definitely going to hit, but then saying its not actually here yet, so the advice is your house is unlikely to be damaged and don't bother taking precautions.

Edited May 14, 2020 by andym

[Genie]

6 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said:

No. What I think, is what I said. Not whatever you rephrase it as.

Ok mate, if you keep saying it then maybe everyone will forget that there was a question that you're dodging  

Edited May 14, 2020 by Genie

[VILLAMARV]

14 minutes ago, Genie said:

Ok mate, if you keep saying it then maybe everyone will forget that there was a question that you're dodging  

Hilarious. You seem intent on winning some imaginary argument. You could, if you were being genuine, actually engage with what I've said. That might get us somewhere conversationally. I am not the other posters. I have not made the claims you keep referring back to. I am not here to engage in cyclical arguments about things I didn't say. I haven't dodged anything. You appear to have conveniently glossed over the point I did make though, about different words and changing the context. Which I felt added value. Unlike this back and forth.

[chrisp65]

I just wish the virus would mutate in some unforeseen exciting way, so we can move on.

I had a light sniffle back in October, didn’t last long but there was no obvious reason for it. I’m putting in a claim for patient zero.

 

[Genie]

1 minute ago, VILLAMARV said:

Hilarious. You seem intent on winning some imaginary argument. You could, if you were being genuine, actually engage with what I've said. That might get us somewhere conversationally. I am not the other posters. I have not made the claims you keep referring back to. I am not here to engage in cyclical arguments about things I didn't say. I haven't dodged anything. You appear to have conveniently glossed over the point I did make though, about different words and changing the context. Which I felt added value. Unlike this back and forth.

Its moved on from the quoting thing to the allegations that the UK has a policy of not treating old people and leaving them to die, and reinfect the others in the care home.

I asked several times where this policy was, and you quoted that question by me with the reply it was "not a relevant question". You also quoted another poster who wrote "Could it be that the reason there is hospital capacity is because the NHS was following government advice and not treating the oldest patients?"  with the word "exactly". 

So it appears that whilst you claim not to be the "other posters" you agree it is indeed UK policy not to treat old people. As an NHS employee, and someone generally super quick with the links to support your claims it should be easy to close this off and avoid the "cyclical arguments". 

[VILLAMARV]

1 minute ago, Genie said:

Its moved on from the quoting thing to the allegations that the UK has a policy of not treating old people and leaving them to die, and reinfect the others in the care home.

I asked several times where this policy was, and you quoted that question by me with the reply it was "not a relevant question". You also quoted another poster who wrote "Could it be that the reason there is hospital capacity is because the NHS was following government advice and not treating the oldest patients?"  with the word "exactly". 

So it appears that whilst you claim not to be the "other posters" you agree it is indeed UK policy not to treat old people. As an NHS employee, and someone generally super quick with the links to support your claims it should be easy to close this off and avoid the "cyclical arguments". 

Why are you wilfully ignoring the rest of that post about how your change of tense changes the context?

[Seat68]

5 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

I just wish the virus would mutate in some unforeseen exciting way, so we can move on.

I had a light sniffle back in October, didn’t last long but there was no obvious reason for it. I’m putting in a claim for patient zero.

 

Had a bad knee last June, an otherwise unknown covid indicator. I think you will find I am patient zero. 

[Genie]

Just now, VILLAMARV said:

Why are you wilfully ignoring the rest of that post about how your change of tense changes the context?

Can we agree that it isn't actually policy that once you get above an arbitrary unconfirmed age you're considered a lost cause by the NHS and left to not only die, but kill those around you? Its pretty obvious that it isn't and by the silence nobody is going to admit that its a conspiracy theory.