Generic Virus Thread

[HanoiVillan]

I know, truly, that organising PPE must be very difficult, and I know that just because someone is offering doesn't mean that it would be up to standard. However, there has to be a more effective system, surely, than people from companies with PPE to offer watching the daily press conference, noting down the name of a journalist asking questions about PPE, then contacting him to ask who in the government to contact, and him going on Twitter to wonder aloud how this is done.

 

[LondonLax]

Americans value individual freedom more highly than most countries, even at the expense of collective safety, so the response from some might be baffling to a lot of us but it fits with what they consider to be most important. 

Their gun laws kill far more than this virus will but they have not considered changing them because of that. 

[Stevo985]

51 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

I know, truly, that organising PPE must be very difficult, and I know that just because someone is offering doesn't mean that it would be up to standard. However, there has to be a more effective system, surely, than people from companies with PPE to offer watching the daily press conference, noting down the name of a journalist asking questions about PPE, then contacting him to ask who in the government to contact, and him going on Twitter to wonder aloud how this is done.

 

It doesn't scream urgency does it?

But fits in with the government's narrative that we actually have enough. Despite the countless accounts of people not having enough.

Given that they keep mentioning very specific brands like Barbour and Burberry, part of me wonders if there's something fishy going on behind the scenes...

Edited April 20, 2020 by Stevo985

[StefanAVFC]

5 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

Americans value individual freedom more highly than most countries, even at the expense of collective safety, so the response from some might be baffling to a lot of us but it fits with what they consider to be most important. 

Their gun laws kill far more than this virus will but they have not considered changing them because of that. 

It reminds me of when I worked in New Hampshire for a few months. Their state motto is 'Live free or die' and it's plastered everywhere. Fine, but then...

Their seatbeat law is all under 16's need to wear one. Liberty and all that. But on the road sides reminding people of this law, it states 'It's common sense!'.

Their ingrained sense of Liberty and Freedom is insane. it dictates everything, even at great personal harm, especially when it comes to healthcare and gun laws.

[blandy]

1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Or we should all just stop speaking.

Works for me.

That must have been a hard thing to say.

[blandy]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

The argument has merit (well at least to my layman mind it does) until extra deaths are caused due to hospital capacity. 

Yes. This is the main reason for the lockdown. Sure, stopping the spread to other nations and so on also follow as a consequence, but without a vaccine, all lockdown is doing is holding down the rate of infection to protect the nations ability to cope with the throughput of severe cases.

As long as Sweden's medical system can cope with the cases, they're fine on that front. However, they are having major issues with deaths from infections in care homes. The Lockdown (at least in the UK response) is more strict in guidance for protecting the vulnerable, but like here, it seems Sweden is failing in that regard.

[edit. @sne beat me to that bit]

[Villarocker]

36 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

It doesn't cream urgency does it?

But fits in with the government's narrative that we actually have enough. Despite the countless accounts of people not having enough.

Given that they keep mentioning very specific brands like Barbour and Burberry, part of me wonders if there's something fishy going on behind the scenes...

You're not suggesting that there may be some back-handers taking place, are you? Whatever would give you such an idea?

There's no doubt in my mind that something dodgy is going on when company after company say they contacted the government offering help but it isn't accepted when everybody else knows that it is needed.

[LondonLax]

Does anyone have any information on why it has been so bad in Belgium? The highest rates of deaths per person in the world despite a lockdown of their society for a number of weeks. 

 

[blandy]

45 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

I know, truly, that organising PPE must be very difficult, and I know that just because someone is offering doesn't mean that it would be up to standard. However, there has to be a more effective system, surely, than people from companies with PPE to offer watching the daily press conference, noting down the name of a journalist asking questions about PPE, then contacting him to ask who in the government to contact, and him going on Twitter to wonder aloud how this is done.

 

It's weird. The company I work for had, last week donated 24,000 face shields and a load of other PPE to the NHS - to local hospitals around our factories and facilities. They (my Co.)  told us

Quote

"we have been able to to respond to requests to send equipment directly to medical staff ...in GP surgeries, the ambulance service and hospices as well...as NHS hospitals and trusts"

So from what I understand, maybe it's a bit of a... I don't want to be rude about people offering help... but well maybe instead of trying to contact an MP or Minister or Head of NHS, they could talk to their local hospital? or council? It's brilliant they used initiative and generosity to create or offer PPE, but maybe a little initiative in terms of who to talk to might help too? 

Yes the Government should make that advice clear and freely available to folk, if it's the case.

[Stevo985]

1 minute ago, LondonLax said:

Does anyone have any information on why it has been so bad in Belgium? The highest rates of deaths per person in the world despite a lockdown of their society for a number of weeks. 

 

John Burn-Murdosch, reporter and analyst for the FT, continues to say that per capita deaths are an almost irrelevant measurement. There's almost no correlation and all it does is make smaller countries look worse.

 

 

 

[LondonLax]

8 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

John Burn-Murdosch, reporter and analyst for the FT, continues to say that per capita deaths are an almost irrelevant measurement. There's almost no correlation and all it does is make smaller countries look worse.

 

 

 

Yes that’s fair enough, a big country will just take longer to spread through it’s population so will look ‘better’ in the early stages. 

On the discussion about Sweden though, I think Sweden and Belgium both have about 10m people but Belgium has been under lockdown and getting hammered by the virus while Swedes are still out and about but doing much better. 

Could it be a population density thing? Or a climate thing? Or a hospital preparedness? Or something else? 

So many things about this virus don’t make a lot of sense yet. 

[Xann]

3 hours ago, Villarocker said:

Are any others, who have seemingly had Covid-19 and recovered, experiencing anything different about their bodies?

I returned to work last week and have to take 4 buses per day - 2 each way - and on my second bus home I am finding myself falling asleep. I'm also lethargic throughout the day. Also, I've noticed I'm really cold. I have been having the heating on in the office and guys have complained about the heat whilst I'm freezing. I'm also struggling to remember things that would easily come to mind. Stuff such as Cheltenham Gold Cup winners. Previously I'd have been able to reel them off because of my knowledge of horse racing but I'm struggling to recall many. Just one instance of many. 

Anyone else experiencing things like that? 

Yeah - You're not alone.

Her colleagues that have been in, through and out the other side, then returned to work clear have been exhausted.

Fainting in the shower and stuff like that.

[Stevo985]

22 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

Yes that’s fair enough, a big country will just take longer to spread through it’s population so will look ‘better’ in the early stages. 

On the discussion about Sweden though, I think Sweden and Belgium both have about 10m people but Belgium has been under lockdown and getting hammered by the virus while Swedes are still out and about but doing much better. 

Could it be a population density thing? Or a climate thing? Or a hospital preparedness? Or something else? 

So many things about this virus don’t make a lot of sense yet. 

Could be how central Belgium is? Probably people from loss of different nations going to or through Belgium before the lockdown. More borders, more easily accessible. 
 

All speculation on my part

[terrytini]

2 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

This is terrifying  

I mean if this is true then I'm glad they went with the lockdown in the end. But the suggestion that they're doign things based on what the public wants is scary.

The public are idiots!

Made me laugh and I fully take the point.

However I’m very relieved that this is their view to the extent that they are not “ doing a Trump” and egging people on to return to work.

Of course one would hope (!?) that medical opinion would form the majority of their thinking  

 

[sne]

Brussels in a bit of an airport hub so that might be part of it but population density is the main thing surely.

[terrytini]

41 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

John Burn-Murdosch, reporter and analyst for the FT, continues to say that per capita deaths are an almost irrelevant measurement. 

 

He is very good on the stats, I’d recommend him to anyone who wants insight into the numbers.

[PaulC]

13 hours ago, terrytini said:

Don’t read it then

I try not to 

[snowychap]

 

[terrytini]

25 minutes ago, PaulC said:

I try not to 

Hi.

I don’t want to prolong the back and forth on this but thought I ought to reply given your post indicates you are - struggling ? is that a fair description ? And I’m sorry to hear that. I hope you find ways that work for you of getting through this.

As regards posting stuff/ reading stuff/ information overload etc I’d say this though, in a sincere effort to be helpful and constructive.

For some, more information, more discussion, is better.

For some, more speculation, more debate, more theorising, is better.

And for some, it might be better to read and hear less, or even as little as possible.

But for those who come in that first category, a place where “ it all comes out” is essential else they have to bottle it up, or dump it on unwilling family or friends.

Id say that a thread on a debating Forum, dedicated to discussing the virus, was a suitable place for that.

For those that would prefer not to get too much information, maybe ignoring that thread, or reading just a Page or two every couple of days, would be better ? 

On the wider issue, I used to suffer with anxiety, and depression. I’m more than happy to correspond and pass on the things that worked for me if you felt it would be any use ..and in case you didn’t know it there is a very good mental health thread on here

All the best 

Edited April 20, 2020 by terrytini

[Awol]

2 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

It doesn't scream urgency does it?

But fits in with the government's narrative that we actually have enough. Despite the countless accounts of people not having enough.

Given that they keep mentioning very specific brands like Barbour and Burberry, part of me wonders if there's something fishy going on behind the scenes...

More likely Occam’s razor and the ‘system’ is in crisis. The Civil Service tends to run on process, (often to the exclusion of much else - sure @trekka will correct if this is wrong but it’s my experience of Whitehall) and a rolling disaster on this scale has overwhelmed it. 

That’s not excuse making just the most likely explanation, rather than shady money making schemes -plenty of time for that when we’re not on a war footing.