Jump to content
villakram

Generic Virus Thread

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, snowychap said:

Grauniad:

 

One big potential problem here is maintaining inter-generational solidarity.

Telling young people, who have a much reduced risk of suffering serious illness, that they have to maintain some form of social distancing for several years to protect older folks.. well that might prove a bit tricky.

Equally telling vulnerable people to do a two year stretch on lockdown is quite implausible.

No easy answers here, but given the extent of the economic damage and the knock on effects of that, we might end up back at the ‘take it on the chin’ scenario long before 2022. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It’s got to be a balance but really it’s about reducing the stress on the nhs. Whilst the nhs are concentrating all their efforts on coronavirus other serious illnessss are not being treated. Hospital apt’s for heart deaseses and. Cancer treatments have been cancelled. Although coronavirus is deadly it’s no more deadly than heart attacks or cancer 

 

170 thousands deaths by cancers and 110 thousand deaths by heart attacks each year in uk

Edited by PaulC
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Awol said:

One big potential problem here is maintaining inter-generational solidarity.

Telling young people, who have a much reduced risk of suffering serious illness, that they have to maintain some form of social distancing for several years to protect older folks.. well that might prove a bit tricky.

Equally telling vulnerable people to do a two year stretch on lockdown is quite implausible.

No easy answers here, but given the extent of the economic damage and the knock on effects of that, we might end up back at the ‘take it on the chin’ scenario long before 2022. 

Either take it on the chin or 2020/2021's take on Logan's Run (a bit sooner and due to a different cause than I considered but still).

Edited by snowychap
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trump blaming it all on The WHO (saying he won't get fooled again).

They need to be held accountable so he's cutting their funding. Pointing fingers at anyone and everyone except himself.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, sne said:

Trump blaming it all on The WHO (saying he won't get fooled again).

They need to be held accountable so he's cutting their funding. Pointing fingers at anyone and everyone except himself.

Just listened to the presser. He’s a big orange d*ck and as you say is trying to deflect blame, nevertheless every fact he laid out about the WHO and China was true. 

It’ll be very interesting to hear the Chinese response tomorrow! 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Brumstopdogs said:

 

giphy.gif

Like I said earlier. They'll come out of this better than ever. Inexplicably so

  • Like 1
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, snowychap said:

Either take it on the chin or 2020/2021's take on Logan's Run (a bit sooner and due to a different cause than I considered but still).

Let them come.

 

16FF0C15-309F-40CE-953A-2323565039E9.gif

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Brumstopdogs said:

 

giphy.gif

 

It’ll start to bight at the end of this month, not when PPE still hasn’t been sorted, not when the deaths flatten off, not even when the tests get up towards what was promised a month ago. But when the furlough money hasn’t got through, when the business loans haven’t got through, when all the promises of all the money turn out to have no means of delivery because we didn’t sort out the finance sector for a whole decade when we had the chance.

It’ll be hitting millions of pockets and mortgages and car dealerships properly hard in the next few weeks as the April / May pay day puts tens of thousands of businesses down the shitter.

Up until now we’ve been worried about cancelled holidays and boredom.

Shit gonna get real at the end of the month because they literally have no mechanism to deliver on their promises.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Awol said:

Just listened to the presser. He’s a big orange d*ck and as you say is trying to deflect blame, nevertheless every fact he laid out about the WHO and China was true. 

It’ll be very interesting to hear the Chinese response tomorrow! 

He is clearly completely out of his mind. Astonishing performance ( again).

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We do need to start thinking about the enormous damage lockdown is doing to:

  • Cancer treatment and treatment of other chronic illnesses
  • Other urgent hospital admissions
  • Mental health and addiction
  • Domestic abuse
  • Unemployment rates
  • Children's education, physical fitness and social development
  • The economy as a whole

Have we got our priorities right on this one? I was 100% supportive of the initial severe measures, but I think it's looking less like the "once in a century" pandemic originally feared, and more of a "once in a decade" nasty outbreak that has been particularly unpleasant in certain locations (densely populated metropolises with similar climates*).

I am not a "coronavirus denier" or whatever, not interested in any of the conspiracy theories. Not pretending I know what the solution is. But I think a picture is starting to emerge that says we really need to refocus on all the other things that kill and harm people besides Coronavirus. We have this laser focus on one problem and that was only really justified by the possibility that it was something uniquely destructive.

* At the point of the outbreak. Wuhan in December is similar to Lombardy + Madrid in February, which are similar to London, Paris and New York in March

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Awol said:

Just listened to the presser. He’s a big orange d*ck and as you say is trying to deflect blame, nevertheless every fact he laid out about the WHO and China was true. 

It’ll be very interesting to hear the Chinese response tomorrow! 

Yes and no. For example, while it’s true that the WHO did parrot the claim from China in mid Jan that they were not seeing human to human transmission they had corrected that information a week later, so the US (and the rest of the world) had that information in January. Trump however was still talking it down and spreading misinformation through until mid March. 

With a fast moving and unknown virus like this mistakes are bound to be made by all agencies. Trump is jumping on an mistakes made by the WHO to absolve himself from the much bigger mistakes made by his administration.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, LondonLax said:

Yes and no. For example, while it’s true that the WHO did parrot the claim from China in mid Jan that they were not seeing human to human transmission they had corrected that information a week later, so the US (and the rest of the world) had that information in January. Trump however was still talking it down and spreading misinformation through until mid March. 

With a fast moving and unknown virus like this mistakes are bound to be made by all agencies. Trump is jumping on an mistakes made by the WHO to absolve himself from the much bigger mistakes made by his administration.

I agree with that, but it wasn’t just the human to human transmission issue. The WHO was fighting against international travel bans from China and related to that, a refusal to call it a global pandemic.

Then add in their flat refusal to recognise or discuss the success of Taiwan which was an even better model than South Korea (everyone wear masks!) to avoid offending Beijing. There’s video evidence of that in this thread.

 I remember Dr John Campbell (YouTube guy) getting increasingly cross about these issues, eventually saying the WHO had lost all credibility. 

With reporting that CIA was warning Trump (and MI6 warning HMG) in mid-Jan that China was lying about the situation and that it was much worse, the WHO’s failings don’t absolve our national governments. That doesn’t change the fact WHO behaved disgracefully.

I don’t agree with defunding the body, but it will force it to make a choice: come clean or go broke.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Awol said:

I agree with that, but it wasn’t just the human to human transmission issue. The WHO was fighting against international travel bans from China and related to that, a refusal to call it a global pandemic.

Then add in their flat refusal to recognise or discuss the success of Taiwan which was an even better model than South Korea (everyone wear masks!) to avoid offending Beijing. There’s video evidence of that in this thread.

 I remember Dr John Campbell (YouTube guy) getting increasingly cross about these issues, eventually saying the WHO had lost all credibility. 

With reporting that CIA was warning Trump (and MI6 warning HMG) in mid-Jan that China was lying about the situation and that it was much worse, the WHO’s failings don’t absolve our national governments. That doesn’t change the fact WHO behaved disgracefully.

I don’t agree with defunding the body, but it will force it to make a choice: come clean or go broke.  

Yes, there appear to have been policy failings on behalf of the WHO. As you say, it doesn’t absolve the responsibility of national governments. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Awol said:

I agree with that, but it wasn’t just the human to human transmission issue. The WHO was fighting against international travel bans from China and related to that, a refusal to call it a global pandemic.

Then add in their flat refusal to recognise or discuss the success of Taiwan which was an even better model than South Korea (everyone wear masks!) to avoid offending Beijing. There’s video evidence of that in this thread.

 I remember Dr John Campbell (YouTube guy) getting increasingly cross about these issues, eventually saying the WHO had lost all credibility. 

With reporting that CIA was warning Trump (and MI6 warning HMG) in mid-Jan that China was lying about the situation and that it was much worse, the WHO’s failings don’t absolve our national governments. That doesn’t change the fact WHO behaved disgracefully.

I don’t agree with defunding the body, but it will force it to make a choice: come clean or go broke.  

Because often the job of rebutting Trump BS has been done for me in the press

Quote

Trump and his supporters have focused on a 14 January WHO tweet reporting the findings of preliminary Chinese studies suggesting “no clear evidence” of human-to-human transmission.

While the WHO was obliged to report on the latest findings of a member state at the source of the outbreak, its officials told their counterparts in technical briefings on 10 and 11 January, and briefed the press on 14 January, that human-to-human transmission was still a strong possibility given the experience of past coronavirus epidemics and urged suitable precautions.

Yamey said it was ridiculous to point to a single tweet early in the pandemic as the fixed position of the WHO. “The whole point of science is that we have initial hypotheses and initial ideas, and we update those ideas as more and more data emerges,” he said.

On 23 January the WHO updated its account of the coronavirus threat, confirming human-to-human transmission and warning that the global risk was high. One week later it formally declared a global emergency.

The WHO are not perfect, but I don't think disgraceful is a word I would use to describe them.  Trump yes the WHO no.  Trump de-funding the WHO won't force them to come clean because it is not what Trump wants.  He does not care what they say he wants someone to blame.  Whatever they say, Trump will point at them and go "look I told you it is all their fault."  If I was in the WHO I would just point the finger back at him as the biggest risk of the world getting reinfected.  Just go at him.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, dounavilla said:

 

This is worth a watch.

Tins hats on with that one chap. Posted that a few pages back, an had few people calling it bullshit even though thay hadn't even watched it.

Just a shame they couldn't get an interview with more senior Chinese scientists. But when you have a 40 year experienced scientist making facts about its mutation, its gotta be spared a thought.

Edited by foreveryoung
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Tins hats on with that one chap. Posted that a few pages back, an had few people calling it bullshit even though thay hadn't even watched it.

Just a shame they couldn't get an interview with more senior Chinese scientists. But when you have a 40 year experienced scientist making facts about its mutation, its gotta be spared a thought.

The problem with conspiracy stuff is it sounds so convincing when you only hear one side of the story. Like any conspiracy. 
 

It’s not until you give the other side a chance to debunk stuff that you can make a judgement. 
 

I haven’t watched the video, so I’m not making a judgement on it. But my guess would be that if it’s tin foil hat conspiracy stuff then it’ll be easily debunked, even if it sounds quite convincing at the time. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...
Â