Generic Virus Thread

[snowychap]

17 minutes ago, leighavfc said:

If mo symptoms I dont see any problem tbh!

But that's really the wrong message.

The message should be that everyone unless they know otherwise (and we aren't as yet absolutely sure that it doesn't hang around/reinfect and there isn't one of these tests that can say that you have had it and are no longer infectious) should behave as though they are able to transmit the virus.

[leighavfc]

2 minutes ago, snowychap said:

But that's really the wrong message.

The message should be that everyone unless they know otherwise (and we aren't as yet absolutely sure that it doesn't hang around/reinfect and there isn't one of these tests that can say that you have had it and are no longer infectious) should behave as though they are able to transmit the virus.

Michael Gove has just said the same thing mate tbh.... one of the Midlands biggest demolition companys (a family member is 2nd in line there) are still fully on site for the foreseeable future. That is far more a problem. 

Edited March 24, 2020 by leighavfc

[rendelc]

Thanks for the advice . I’m keeping my distance from everyone apart from who I’m living with . 

[snowychap]

15 minutes ago, leemond2008 said:

Had an email to say our last day in the office will be tomorrow, the email was sent half hour after the regional manager messaged everyone to say that their position hasn't changed.

Now this is the best on them, they said 6 weeks to get us set up, let's see how long it takes them now, I'm gunna say it'll be ready by the end of the week.

Just can't trust them.

I think that, at the end of this, everyone ought to consider just how other people have behaved.

Those employers who have treated employees like shit should be ditched as soon as possible by those employees and businesses which haven't stepped up to the mark should be ditched by their customers.

At the same time, those that obviously have (and there are many examples, a few of which I've posted in this thread but there are going to be plenty more out there) ought to be rewarded for showing the social spirit which they have.

[leighavfc]

We have just told all of the lads to stay away now until further notice. There will be 3 of us in (all family) who will carry on until either work drys up or one of us is showing symptoms, we have offices in different parts if the buildings and will be phoning each other if we need to speak to each other.. sounds silly but is the right thing to do!

[snowychap]

2 minutes ago, leighavfc said:

Michael Gove has just said the same thing mate tbh.... one of the Midlands biggest demolition companys (a family member is 2nd in line there) are still fully on site for the foreseeable future. That is far more a problem. 

It may be more of a problem but if everyone analyses their own situation as 'I haven't got symptoms and I'm just doing x or y and no one is there, &c.' then it opens the door for everyone to do that. People can always find a reason why they are the exception if they really want to.

That's not to say I don't think Rendel's question isn't a quandary for him, it is - but is it key to the effort required to slow down the spread of Coronavirus and collectively to keep the lights on whilst that happens?

Again, it's anecdote but given the traffic on my road outside (it's the same as it always is a 7.30am), I would either have to say that we've always been the main through route for key workers in the Malvern area or everyone has found a reason why they need to go to work this morning (just one more day/I've no symptoms/I'm going to keep my distance/my boss is a word removed).

[snowychap]

9 minutes ago, leighavfc said:

Michael Gove has just said the same thing mate tbh....

When you say Gove has just said the same thing - what do you mean?

Has Gove just said that if you have no symptoms then it's fine?

[Awol]

12 minutes ago, rendelc said:

Thanks for the advice . I’m keeping my distance from everyone apart from who I’m living with . 

Crack on double-quick, you can still claim not to have seen the news if anyone asks! 

[snowychap]

From Australia:

Quote

The government has embarked an ambitious plan to sew so much confusion in the community that they stop worrying about the coronavirus crisis enveloping the globe.

The State Premiers announced the move last night, only to have Scott Morrison lay out a different plan to only mildly confuse people, a few hours later. This morning, it was unclear whether the plan was to gravely confuse people or mildly confuse them, adding to the confusion.

Public health officials admitted that the plan had never been tried before, but that so far it was being implemented with such panache that might just work. “To be honest, I’ve spent so much time working out whether schools are open or shut or not-shut-but-not-really-open that I haven’t had time to worry,” said one official. “I haven’t felt this serene in weeks.”

Mr Morrison called on all Australians to self-confuse where possible. “Ideally, people would confuse themselves, but if that’s not possible, then we ask that they simply visit their relevant government website, which should help them become confused,” said Mr Morrison. “If you’re still not confused, then just listen to whatever I say. That’ll do it.”

[leighavfc]

11 minutes ago, snowychap said:

When you say Gove has just said the same thing - what do you mean?

Has Gove just said that if you have no symptoms then it's fine?

He has said people on construction site where nobody else is present can continue to do so. 

 

[Mic09]

Can I just say, with people dying, families being broken apart, people losing their jobs, homes, the world economy going to shit, not being able to see you loved ones or even enjoy a family picnic, anyone who complains about working from home because of their "mental well being" is at the very best selfish. 

All you have to do is wake up, stick a podcast on, listen to some music, stay in your PJs and do the work that you are priviladged to be able to be doing from your bedroom while snacking on a peanut butter sandwich. 

Edited March 24, 2020 by Mic09

[Guest av1]

21 minutes ago, snowychap said:

I think that, at the end of this, everyone ought to consider just how other people have behaved.

 

100%. 

Morals v Money 

[snowychap]

2 minutes ago, leighavfc said:

He has said people on construction site where nobody else is present can continue to do so.

More mixed messages then.

Is it that the work should be essential, key work or that people should just consider whether they're working in isolation?

Again, everyone, if pushed (and they want to) could probably find themselves some sort of exemption, if not in the specific pdfs put out by the government, in the interpretation of them or in a particular minister's pronouncement on the TV.

[leighavfc]

13 minutes ago, snowychap said:

It may be more of a problem but if everyone analyses their own situation as 'I haven't got symptoms and I'm just doing x or y and no one is there, &c.' then it opens the door for everyone to do that. People can always find a reason why they are the exception if they really want to.

That's not to say I don't think Rendel's question isn't a quandary for him, it is - but is it key to the effort required to slow down the spread of Coronavirus and collectively to keep the lights on whilst that happens?

Again, it's anecdote but given the traffic on my road outside (it's the same as it always is a 7.30am), I would either have to say that we've always been the main through route for key workers in the Malvern area or everyone has found a reason why they need to go to work this morning (just one more day/I've no symptoms/I'm going to keep my distance/my boss is a word removed).

I agree with some if not most mate, I'm going to work today as I cant work at home. This was the advice given by the prime minister as im sure you know. There is literally nothing I can do from home, i work in manufacturing most is done by machines. Many companys in the trades we supply are still working. We will until it's totally not needed, which may not be long tbh.

If it's not necessary to go to work then that's fine and I completely agree, we have told 5 lads to stay away now until further notice as there is no point of them being in. 

I have no symptoms can I go shopping? Because i need too and I'm the least risk in my house. It's all about managing risk mate and being reasonable about it.

My point being he has one day with absolutely nobody around and if he is working with the correct PPE there is maybe little or no risk for one day. If it was any longer I would advise him not too.  It is exactly about managing your own risk until either the government come down harder or the army on the streets etc. That's not wrong its unfortunately for many of us the way it is who cant work from home. When I'm told to stay at home completely I will. Like I say there is a demolition company with probably 100+ staff on the ground still on site, those are the ones who need to be forceably shut down, not one stone Mason finishing his work or my company where 3 of us are manning machines... we may be roped into making ventilators yet too..

[leighavfc]

21 minutes ago, snowychap said:

More mixed messages then.

Is it that the work should be essential, key work or that people should just consider whether they're working in isolation?

Again, everyone, if pushed (and they want to) could probably find themselves some sort of exemption, if not in the specific pdfs put out by the government, in the interpretation of them or in a particular minister's pronouncement on the TV.

Not essential work just there normal day to day stuff. Basically they shouldnt be on site !

[snowychap]

35 minutes ago, leighavfc said:

I have no symptoms can I go shopping? Because i need too and I'm the least risk in my house.

Again, this seems to misunderstand things.

If anyone has symptoms then they absolutely must not go out. They need to make other arrangments - family, friends, charitable services, home deliveries, &c.

If people are in the at risk groups then they need to stay in also and not go shopping even if they need to. They need to make other arrangements as per the above or through this government scheme if/when it comes on line.

Other people should also only go shopping when absolutely necessary. Just because they haven't got any symptoms, it doesn't mean they don't have the virus and thus cannot transmit it. As a result of this they ought to minimise their social contact which, in terms of shopping, would mean that they should only be going out for the essentials and as infrequently as possible. For exercise/fresh air purposes, that woulld be going out once a day and maintaining social distancing from all those with whom they do not live.

In work terms, I think that the message is, again, mixed and thus 'interpretable'. You say that you can't work from home and this makes your trip to work essential. I say that's an incorrect interpretation of the advice given. Is the work carried out by your work organisation essential? If yes, then as long as the other guidelines are being followed, you go to work. If not then you must do the work at home if possible or not at all if not possible.

35 minutes ago, leighavfc said:

It's all about managing risk mate and being reasonable about it.

Yes and no.

In an individual's situation, i.e. whether they decide (if they're not already covered by the 'do not go outside and mix') if their grocery shopping is absolutely essential on this day or that, then yes (but again they really need to examine that decision rather than say, "Ooh, I need some milk as I'm down to my last three pints so I'll go out as I have no symptoms."*).

If you apply this 'managing risk' to people's subjective decision making about the necessity or otherwise of the work and business they are involved in then you end up with declarations that opening a shop that sells sports equipment is essential because it's crucial for the nation.

35 minutes ago, leighavfc said:

It is exactly about managing your own risk until either the government come down harder or the army on the streets etc.

I disagree. That is what sees us in this situation and what will see us, probably, in an even sterner situation in the next few days. There is too much of the 'until the government ban it then I'll just keep doing it'. In this I'm very much with @Awol's comments earlier.

* I'm not saying that you are doing this, by the way, but it is how a large amount of people will be looking at it.

Edited: One comment as it may have looked overly critical and directed at you when it wasn't and was supposed to be a general comment.

Edited March 24, 2020 by snowychap

[snowychap]

2 minutes ago, leighavfc said:

Not essential work just there normal day to day stuff. Basically they shouldnt be on site !

See above, subjective interpretations of what is classed as essential will allow for confusion and people making claims that their work is essential.

[leighavfc]

1 minute ago, snowychap said:

Again, this seems to misunderstand things.

If anyone has symptoms then they absolutely must not go out. They need to make other arrangments - family, friends, charitable services, home deliveries, &c.

If people are in the at risk groups then they need to stay in also and not go shopping even if they need to. They need to make other arrangements as per the above or through this government scheme if/when it comes on line.

Other people should also only go shopping when absolutely necessary. Just because they haven't got any symptoms, it doesn't mean they don't have the virus and thus cannot transmit it. As a result of this they ought to minimise their social contact which, in terms of shopping, would mean that they should only be going out for the essentials and as infrequently as possible. For exercise/fresh air purposes, that woulld be going out once a day and maintaining social distancing from all those with whom they do not live.

In work terms, I think that the message is, again, mixed and thus 'interpretable'. You say that you can't work from home and this makes your trip to work essential. I say that's an incorrect interpretation of the advice given. Is the work carried out by your work organisation essential? If yes, then as long as the other guidelines are being followed, you go to work. If not then you must do the work at home if possible or not at all if not possible.

Yes and no.

In an individual's situation, i.e. whether they decide (if they're not already covered by the 'do not go outside and mix') if their grocery shopping is absolutely essential on this day or that, then yes (but again they really need to examine that decision rather than say, "Ooh, I need some milk as I'm down to my last three pints so I'll go out as I have no symptoms."*).

If you apply this 'managing risk' to people's subjective decision making about the necessity or otherwise of the work and business they are involved in then you end up with declarations that opening a shop that sells sports equipment is essential because it's crucial for the nation.

I disagree. That is what sees us in this situation and what will see us, probably, in an even sterner situation in the next few days. There is far, far too much of this 'until the government ban it then I'll just keep doing it'. In this I''m very much with @Awol's comments earlier.

* I'm not saying that you are doing this, by the way, but it is how a large amount of people will be looking at it.

Again I agree I'm just giving you my situation... what anyone else does is not down to me and I have no control over it either.

I have been managing risk for the last 8 years, my brother had a rare form of Leukaemia (only 6 cases worldwide at the time). I know all about managing every day so I completly on board with what I need to do and when I need to stop. He could die at any time with any infection. 

Again I dont disagree I'm just saying a lot of this going to come down to people managing risk rightly or wrongly.

[leighavfc]

3 minutes ago, snowychap said:

See above, subjective interpretations of what is classed as essential will allow for confusion and people making claims that their work is essential.

Agreed 

[Stevo985]

27 minutes ago, snowychap said:

More mixed messages then.

Is it that the work should be essential, key work or that people should just consider whether they're working in isolation?

Again, everyone, if pushed (and they want to) could probably find themselves some sort of exemption, if not in the specific pdfs put out by the government, in the interpretation of them or in a particular minister's pronouncement on the TV.

This was my issue with the message last night.

"Don't go to work unless it's absolutely necessary"

Well who decides that?

Absolutely necessary for the employee? For their department? For the company? 

Does the company decide? The police? The government?

What's an "absolutely necessary" job?

 

I've woken up this morning and the road outside my flat sounds quieter than usual, but still pretty busy. I wouldn't say it's essential workers only commuting.