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Just now, NurembergVillan said:

I had that a week or so ago. Kept saying to the Mrs I was short of breath. It was how I imagine it'd be to have asthma. No other symptoms, although two nights in a row I woke up sweatier than I've ever been so perhaps there were.

I now have a full-blown cold.  Not so much a snotty nose but started with a sore throat which now just feels irritated and has led to a productive cough and congested sinuses.

Frustrating not knowing whether it's "it" or just a regular virus.

If it's any scant consolation, sinus issues aren't a symptom of it right?

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39 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I don't give a shit what colour political tie you usually wear this government are an absolute disgrace for leaving nurses and doctors on the front line of all this without the correct basic PPE. We are seeing report after report of this and it is inexcusable as they have known this was coming for 2 months yet have still managed to put those who care for us in danger due to a lack of such a basic need.

I’m not sure this is directly on Johnson or Hancock. We have stockpiles of pandemic kit in warehouses across the UK, and infrequent exercises (either table-top only or with a physical component) to test preparedness. 

The distribution systems to get the kit out have clearly failed, hence the need to bring in the army - surpassed only by the navy as masters of logistics. 

The real question is why the existing system for distribution has failed, why and who was responsible For that failure? It’s not the job of Cabinet Ministers to distribute face-masks, they’re strategic level bods, not ops.

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Just now, Awol said:

 

 hence the need to bring in the army - surpassed only by the navy as masters of logistics. 

 

Image result for i will cut you gif

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1 minute ago, Awol said:

I’m not sure this is directly on Johnson or Hancock. We have stockpiles of pandemic kit in warehouses across the UK, and infrequent exercises (either table-top only or with a physical component) to test preparedness. 

The distribution systems to get the kit out have clearly failed, hence the need to bring in the army - surpassed only by the navy as masters of logistics. 

The real question is why the existing system for distribution has failed, why and who was responsible For that failure? It’s not the job of Cabinet Ministers to distribute face-masks, they’re strategic level bods, not ops.

A decade of Tory austerity has probably played a large part.......you know, that decade of austerity that the current Tory government seem intent on ignoring.

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9 minutes ago, bickster said:

Not convinced I'll be working from home now. More convinced I'll be made redundant

The business can't close (NHS contracts etc) but in that instance, it's unclear whether they can mothball the jobs needed to be shed... government hasn't given clear advice and no-one knows what the situation is. Much confusion

Surely worst case they can send you home and get the gov't to pay your wages (or 80%)??

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2 minutes ago, blandy said:

Surely worst case they can send you home and get the gov't to pay your wages (or 80%)??

Apparently not, there's all sorts of rules to it and no one to give anyone any advice

I'll happily sit on my arse at home for 80% of my wages. I'd actually be better off

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If you think it will help pal , have at it.

 

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3 minutes ago, Awol said:

I’m not sure this is directly on Johnson or Hancock. We have stockpiles of pandemic kit in warehouses across the UK, and infrequent exercises (either table-top only or with a physical component) to test preparedness. 

The distribution systems to get the kit out have clearly failed, hence the need to bring in the army - surpassed only by the navy as masters of logistics. 

The real question is why the existing system for distribution has failed, why and who was responsible For that failure? It’s not the job of Cabinet Ministers to distribute face-masks, they’re strategic level bods, not ops.

As I said though we have known this is coming for some time now.  Surely has health secretary 2 months ago you ask the question are we prepared for what is to come,  do those we need to take care of us have all the basic requirements. Speak with Drs and senior nurses at different trusts to ensure what you are being told is correct and then do this every few days to ensure you don't get to a point where Drs and nurses are treating patients without the PPE to help keep themselves safe. It is not hard and certainly not something those at the top can pass the buck on. Grave concerns have continually been raised about this by numerous Drs and nurses on the front line for weeks now yet everyday we are still seeing the same.

This is akin to sending the army to war and half the combat personnel not having body armour.

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8 minutes ago, bickster said:

Apparently not, there's all sorts of rules to it and no one to give anyone any advice

I'll happily sit on my arse at home for 80% of my wages. I'd actually be better off

You need to be classed as furloughed by your company for them to be paying the wages during this period. We've been looking at it for our guys here. We'll gladly foot the 20% of the wage while they're off work and we're shut down, but if not for the Government picking up the remainder then we'd unfortunately be laying people off instead.

Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme

Under the scheme, employers will need to:

– Designate affected employees as “furloughed workers” and notify employees of this change; and

– Submit information to HMRC about the employees that have been “furloughed” and their earnings through a new online portal (HMRC have said that they will set out further details of the information required here).

However, there are a number of complex issues at play here, not least because the Government has made it clear that designating an employee as a “furloughed worker” remains subject to existing employment law and, depending on the wording of individual employment contracts, may be subject to negotiation.

It would seem, therefore, that the scheme will not give employers the automatic right to lay off their employees and expect the Government to pick up the salary costs.

In addition to this, whilst there are clear (but complicated) lay-off rules in the UK, the concept of “furlough” is a US term and is not specifically covered by UK law.

Employers will need to consider the scheme carefully and should take legal advice on the specific impact for their business.

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23 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

If it's any scant consolation, sinus issues aren't a symptom of it right?

No.  It was more the breathing issues for a few days before it looked anything like a cold.  I'm thinking maybe the two things weren't related.

I have polyps in my sinuses that cause issues with any virus I get, though, so it's hard to tell on that front.

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I ain't a fan of Morgan, but he's played a blinder here.

He's the archetypal populist journo-presenter, but he's the only one with the minerals to pin government ministers to the wall like this.

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17 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

This is akin to sending the army to war and half the combat personnel not having body armour.

*cough cough* 2005 *cough cough* Illegal war in *cough cough* Iraq *cough cough*

Blast this virus. 

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10 minutes ago, blandy said:

You're right, Mark.

But, hospital managers shouldn't need the gov't to ask them "are you prepared"?. They should have checked themselves, checked stocks of kit, all the rest and put out orders etc. if short. The mispreparedness of some hospital and not others suggests local management, probably exacerbated by end of financial year cost issues etc.

Yes, tory government policy, yes cuts, but still you've got to seriously look at hospital management for shortages, surely?

Exactly this. 

Minister: Are the distribution systems, working? Is everything up to date? 

Minion: Yes, boss. All checked X weeks/months ago.

Minister: Great, now where the **** do we find more ventilators? 

If Minister’s can’t delegate then nothing will ever get done. It’s a failure and Hancock is responsible, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s his fault.

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16 minutes ago, blandy said:

You're right, Mark.

But, hospital managers shouldn't need the gov't to ask them "are you prepared"?. They should have checked themselves, checked stocks of kit, all the rest and put out orders etc. if short. The mispreparedness of some hospital and not others suggests local management, probably exacerbated by end of financial year cost issues etc.

Yes, tory government policy, yes cuts, but still you've got to seriously look at hospital management for shortages, surely?

Of course Pete the culpability runs all the way through but the buck has to stop with the man at the top is all I am saying . If he has been given false information about how prepared individual trusts/hospitals are then he should make sure heads roll but in the mean time he should have made sure, given concerns were being raised at least a couple of weeks ago and have been raised every day since, that by the time we got to this stage no hospital or single individual on the front line was still lacking PPE. 

I know you aren't suggesting there is but there is zero excuse for this. Lack of ICU beds to a degree I can understand as long term failings could not be solved in 2 months but lack of basic PPE is inexcusable and makes an already dire situation for Drs and nurses even worse.

Edited by markavfc40
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38 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

This is akin to sending the army to war and half the combat personnel not having body armour.

Britain has plenty of previous for that sort of thing. The disgracefully crap equipment and outdated tactics in 1940 left us with zero chance up against the Wehrmacht. 

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11 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

Britain has plenty of previous for that sort of thing. The disgracefully crap equipment and outdated tactics in 1940 left us with zero chance up against the Wehrmacht. 

That's because black nasty can be used to make anything.

Image result for black nasty tape

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We are unfortunately having to look into letting a couple of lads go soon, we have had a great year up until the last 2 weeks where it has been absolutely dead. We dont want to let them go If we can avoid it but simply cant afford to have them standing around day by day. If we could pay them on full pay for this time we would for sure, waiting to hear what the ins and out of the 80% wage supplement are so maybe we could just put them on down time. Not looking great already though.... 

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54 minutes ago, blandy said:

You're right, Mark.

But, hospital managers shouldn't need the gov't to ask them "are you prepared"?. They should have checked themselves, checked stocks of kit, all the rest and put out orders etc. if short. The mispreparedness of some hospital and not others suggests local management, probably exacerbated by end of financial year cost issues etc.

Yes, tory government policy, yes cuts, but still you've got to seriously look at hospital management for shortages, surely?

Totally agree, this is not all the government.. the NHS has needed a massive kick up the backside for years, especially management roles.

That's not to take away any of the work done on the frontline btw. it's the pen pushers and endless not required middle managers I'm on about

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1 hour ago, NurembergVillan said:

I had that a week or so ago. Kept saying to the Mrs I was short of breath. It was how I imagine it'd be to have asthma. No other symptoms, although two nights in a row I woke up sweatier than I've ever been so perhaps there were.

I now have a full-blown cold.  Not so much a snotty nose but started with a sore throat which now just feels irritated and has led to a productive cough and congested sinuses.

Frustrating not knowing whether it's "it" or just a regular virus.

I've been fairly similar to the point my girlfriend asked me why I kept sighing, I was unknowingly drawing huge breathes to cover for the shorter ones.

i have very mild asthma now but it had it badly when younger, I struggle during change of season now and I've had two asthma attacks in my life.

If someone who has never struggled for breath and I mean really struggled, gasping for air making you dizzy then even struggling a little bit is going to cause some panic for jo public. I understand why some fairly healthy people are turning up to a and e just because they can't breath as well as normal.

some doctors have said the people that are dying are dying in agony, must be what's it's like to be suffocated or drowning.

 

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