Lichfield Dean Posted July 15, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted July 15, 2021 It isn't just "blood clots" that the AZ vaccine has been linked with, it's a very very rare kind of blood clot that is very much increased in risk with the vaccine. It's still a tiny risk, but it is increased. Ordinary run-of-the-mill clots have not been shown to be any more likely with AZ than any other vaccine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 Once again, I don’t think anyone is denying the maths of the risks, that’s why there are other vaccines for some profile groups. It was the premis that there was a government conspiracy to cover it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 4 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Once again, I don’t think anyone is denying the maths of the risks, that’s why there are other vaccines for some profile groups. It was the premis that there was a government conspiracy to cover it up. Not saying that is the case but it would make sense as it would severely impact on people taking the vaccine. Maybe that guy was given false information because he was saying that 1500 people have died as a result of the AZ vaccine not the 70 that has been reported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, PaulC said: Not saying that is the case but it would make sense as it would severely impact on people taking the vaccine. Maybe that guy was given false information because he was saying that 1500 people have died as a result of the AZ vaccine not the 70 that has been reported. You know what, its July 2021, I’m tired of this. You crack on. But I’ll dip out. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted July 15, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted July 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Genie said: Mate of mine (40) had a blood clot out of the blue that gave him a heart attack. First thought was the vaccine as it was only a couple of weeks since. Turns out it’s because he’s a combination of 1) over weight 2) stressed and 3) grieving the loss of his mum. Not vaccine related, just a coincidence. Apart from being 8 years older, I fit all the criteria. I’m calling the doc in the morning for a checkup. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 19 hours ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: Wonder what the reasons are for refusing to have it ? I don't know what to think of these people, it is their right to not have it but that means life is more dangerous for Nurses / Doctors + everyone else. Pretty much all the people I know who haven’t had it are women of of childbearing age who are actively trying or planning to try and get pregnant in the next few years. As reasons go I think that’s pretty understandable. I have noticed that when the scientists and experts get asked on the subject the line seems to be “there’s no evidence that it affects fertility” which isn’t the same as “it definitely doesn’t affect fertility” I know they need to be careful with their words because we live in a pretty litigious society now but if you’re expecting people to potentially (however small the probability) sacrifice their ability to start a family then you probably should be willing to stick your neck out a bit. FYI myself and my partner have had first jabs. We have a 1 year old and will probably try for a second at some point next year but my partner did say that “if we didn’t already have one I wouldn’t be taking it”. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 1 hour ago, desensitized43 said: “there’s no evidence that it affects fertility” which isn’t the same as “it definitely doesn’t affect fertility” It's actually exactly the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 8 minutes ago, darrenm said: It's actually exactly the same It really isn’t. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 11 minutes ago, darrenm said: It's actually exactly the same Oooh, I’m not sure I can agree with you there. We’re in to absence of evidence is not evidence of absence territory. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted July 16, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted July 16, 2021 (edited) My girlfriend also won't take the vaccine due to concerns about issues with children in future. Edited July 16, 2021 by Chindie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 Quote The UK is "not out of the woods yet" and people should act with caution as Covid restrictions in England end on Monday, Prof Chris Whitty has said. England's chief medical officer warned that Covid hospitalisations were doubling every three weeks and could hit "scary numbers" in future. Prof Whitty said the pandemic still had a "long way to run in the UK". Solicitor General Lucy Frazer said while cases will rise, there were "consequences for not opening up". It comes as the UK recorded nearly 50,000 new cases on Thursday - the highest daily number since January. Link Unless he’s just arrived in the country he will know that many people will do anything but “act with caution”. Cases are going to go through the roof, that much is certain. Hospitalisations and deaths will shoot up. This will be a major test of Boris and co’s resolve. Will they/we be able to ride it out or will we see a return of restrictions in Autumn? Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, desensitized43 said: It really isn’t. 1 hour ago, chrisp65 said: Oooh, I’m not sure I can agree with you there. We’re in to absence of evidence is not evidence of absence territory. As far as COVID goes, it is. We have data from millions of people. If there's no evidence for fertility being affected by the vaccine, then it's as close to it definitely doesn't affect fertility as you can get. Yes, in general, absense of evidence is not evidence but I'm talking specifically COVID vaccine related here with the specific massive amount of data we have. Edited July 16, 2021 by darrenm as you can get as you can get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 7 minutes ago, darrenm said: As far as COVID goes, it is. We have data from millions of people. If there's no evidence for fertility being affected by the vaccine, then it's as close to it definitely doesn't affect fertility as you can get. Yes, in general, absense of evidence is not evidence but I'm talking specifically COVID vaccine related here with the specific massive amount of data we have. Personally, I find that strength of statement pro the vaccine a bit worrying. Yes there are now hundreds of millions of pieces of data. But none of that data can be more than a year old, 50% of it would be for males, and the vast majority of it would be for older people. In no way am i saying I suspect there could be a problem. I would just shy away from being quite so categorical so soon. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Personally, I find that strength of statement pro the vaccine a bit worrying. Yes there are now hundreds of millions of pieces of data. But none of that data can be more than a year old, 50% of it would be for males, and the vast majority of it would be for older people. In no way am i saying I suspect there could be a problem. I would just shy away from being quite so categorical so soon. Fair point. My original point was that once you get down to statistically tiny amounts of doubt, you have to consider that no doubt. That's how science works - the evidence can never by definition reach 100% certainty but it gets to a point where it's accepted as a certainty because it's so close. e.g. AZ vaccine at least - they've been using Adenovirus vector vaccines for years. The Sars-Cov-2 virus spike proteins bind to ACE2 receptors in the same way lots of other well known viruses do. As well as the massive amounts of field data, we also have the huge amount of trial data from all ages of subjects. At no point has any change to fertility been observed and with prevailing medical knowledge, there's no reason to think it will be observed. Which is why I said that limited to the COVID vaccines*, the absense (I demand that the verb of absent be absense) of evidence is the same as evidence it doesn't happen. I don't see why it would be any more likely to give fertility issues than other things like cause cancer, make your hair fall out, etc. And they're all considered to have no risk from the vaccine. *which I should have made clear at the time 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 Not the best source, but the quotes do the job Quote Boris Johnson could be forced to order new Covid lockdown curbs in five weeks, Chris Whitty has warned just days before Monday's "Freedom Day". The Chief Medical Officer sounded the alarm over a potential "scary" growth in hospitalisations which could leave the NHS "in trouble again surprisingly fast" once restrictions are lifted. The top medic said if hospital admissions begin doubling and the jabs rollout was not "topping out" the pandemic, in "five, six, seven eight weeks' time" the Prime Minister may need to "look again" at restrictions. It comes after Mr Johnson insisted Brits must "learn to live with Covid" and ignored calls to keep the legal requirement for face masks in enclosed spaces beyond Sunday. Speaking at a British Science Museum event, Professor Whitty underlined that epidemics are "either doubling or they're halving", adding: "And currently this epidemic is doubling. It's doubling in cases. It is also doubling in people going to hospital, and it's doubling in deaths." https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/chris-whitty-warns-england-could-24546061 As with previous occasions when the government has been optimistic and scaled things back, I'll assume they're ballsing it up and remain cautious. I'll look to return to normality when the guinea pigs have been back to normal for a month or so without disaster striking, but I want to be nowhere near shops or pubs in the first weeks after "freedom day". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCU Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, Genie said: Link Unless he’s just arrived in the country he will know that many people will do anything but “act with caution”. Cases are going to go through the roof, that much is certain. Hospitalisations and deaths will shoot up. This will be a major test of Boris and co’s resolve. Will they/we be able to ride it out or will we see a return of restrictions in Autumn? Time will tell. I reckon so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 12 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Not the best source, but the quotes do the job https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/chris-whitty-warns-england-could-24546061 As with previous occasions when the government has been optimistic and scaled things back, I'll assume they're ballsing it up and remain cautious. I'll look to return to normality when the guinea pigs have been back to normal for a month or so without disaster striking, but I want to be nowhere near shops or pubs in the first weeks after "freedom day". I'm away for a week from the 31st. I'm going to have to use extreme caution as I assume 2 weeks after the 19th its going to be the start of an enormous surge in cases. The big problem is the baseline being so high. Usually when restrictions have been lifted its because cases are very little and there's little transmission in the community. Its absolutely rife at the moment so it will go off like a bottle of fizzy pop in August. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante_Lockhart Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 Cases can keep going up, but if the vaccine works as it says then hospitalisations and deaths should still remain minimal - which is key. As long as they remain low I don't think we'll be heading back into another lockdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 1 minute ago, Dante_Lockhart said: Cases can keep going up, but if the vaccine works as it says then hospitalisations and deaths should still remain minimal - which is key. As long as they remain low I don't think we'll be heading back into another lockdown. Yes, to a degree. Whitty has said (in the previous posts) that hospitalisations and deaths are also doubling. Could we see 300-400k daily infections? If we do then I think the deaths and hospitalisations might be at concerning levels. Theres 2,000 people in hospital with Covid currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante_Lockhart Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 1 minute ago, Genie said: Yes, to a degree. Whitty has said (in the previous posts) that hospitalisations and deaths are also doubling. Could we see 300-400k daily infections? If we do then I think the deaths and hospitalisations might be at concerning levels. Theres 2,000 people in hospital with Covid currently. Surprised the whole country isn't immune now as we keep seeing massive amounts of cases, surely some people must be getting it twice by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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