Xela Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 Simple fact is, we can't lockdown forever. They may be constant variants... we'll just have to live with it. If people refuse the vaccine, as is their right, then they have to face the consequences if they get ill (excluding people who can't take it for medical reasons) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 Amusing to compare walking around Merry Hill this evening with the freakout on Twitter about withdrawing the mask mandate. Did some rough counting walking round, and about 25% of people just didn't have a mask (not including children in this, none of whom had a mask), and another 10% or so had one but were wearing it as a chinstrap, over their mouth but not their nose, or some other defective way. The online panicking doesn't seem to fit very well with how people are actually acting in person. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 9, 2021 Moderator Share Posted July 9, 2021 7 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: The online panicking doesn't seem to fit very well with how people are actually acting in person. 3 things on this. What each of us see online is what we choose and who we follow. Personally I’ve seen absolutely zero “panicking” or freaking out online. Though to be fair I’ve blocked so many nobbers on Twitter in order to render it less of a sewer, that I may be unaware of either the extent of the anti vaccine or pro mask “tribes”. Secondly if 25% or so aren’t wearing masks and the others are, that suggests to me that a very substantial proposition of people think mask wearing is a good idea. Thirdly I can’t count. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 2 hours ago, Genie said: F%#k ‘em (as long as it’s their choice not to have it) The problem is that some people cant get the vaccine for medical reasons. If the anti vax morons got it then you would have 95%+ of people vaccinated and the other 5% would be protected by default. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, villa89 said: The problem is that some people cant get the vaccine for medical reasons. If the anti vax morons got it then you would have 95%+ of people vaccinated and the other 5% would be protected by default. That’s why I put the bit in brackets 1) People that chose not to have a vaccine for a virus that’s killed millions of people - f%¥k em 2) Those who cannot have it for whatever reason have my sympathy. Hopefully they can in the future (I assume it needs further testing / approving for people with certain conditions). Edited July 9, 2021 by Genie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 2 hours ago, Xela said: Simple fact is, we can't lockdown forever. They may be constant variants... we'll just have to live with it. If people refuse the vaccine, as is their right, then they have to face the consequences if they get ill (excluding people who can't take it for medical reasons) True but the more people that get the virus the greater chance of new and resistant variants to the vaccines occurring. The govt are putting all their faith in the vaccines protecting the public but theres still going to be a number of people getting really sick and dying who have had both vaccines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 13 hours ago, PaulC said: True but the more people that get the virus the greater chance of new and resistant variants to the vaccines occurring. Sarah Gilbert said that any variant radical enough to make their vaccine ineffective would also be non-functional. Also interesting Tweet here: Quote The govt are putting all their faith in the vaccines protecting the public but theres still going to be a number of people getting really sick and dying who have had both vaccines. That will certainly happen but then it goes back to exactly what Alex said: we can’t lockdown forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straggler Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 We can put our faith in the vaccines once we are at herd immunity levels. We aren't there yet. We are still jabbing huge numbers of people each day, getting ever closer to that tipping point. With a bit of patience, keeping social distancing going, keeping the mask mandate we keep the spread down until we can take away restrictions for good. Freedom Day is the beginning of the countdown to the next more restrictive lockdown IMO. If you are really keen to return to normal why clamour to do it in a way that virtually ensures a return to the conditions that you are desperate to get away from. It's like breaking out of prison a week before you were due to be released. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 12 minutes ago, Morley_crosses_to_Withe said: Sarah Gilbert said that any variant radical enough to make their vaccine ineffective would also be non-functional. Also interesting Tweet here: That will certainly happen but then it goes back to exactly what Alex said: we can’t lockdown forever. I don't believe anything I read or hear anymore. I know we can't lockdown forever but cases are rising dramatically every week, despite the vaccine rollout, hospital cases are rising by about the same amount and deaths are starting to rise again. it wont be long before the NHS are overwhelmed again. Have this Govt not learnt from previous mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straggler Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 1 minute ago, PaulC said: I don't believe anything I read or hear anymore. I know we can't lockdown forever but cases are rising dramatically every week, despite the vaccine rollout, hospital cases are rising by about the same amount and deaths are starting to rise again. it wont be long before the NHS are overwhelmed again. Have this Govt not learnt from previous mistakes. No, they appear incapable of learning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM3000 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Curious how many people here are being forced back to the office soon? I'm very concerned about it. I think we will be forced back next month sometime, I'll have to sit next to unvaccinated people who also won't wear masks and while that's their choice it doesn't sit easy with me. Our work has been more productive from home as well, we have zero need to return to an office urgently. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 My company confirmed that while offices remain open for those need them, there's no chance of us being told to go back this year. They've been very cautious and closed the offices before it was mandated, though. I suspect that redundant, petty micromanagers across the country will be trying to compel people back in this month. I'm in a fairly fortunate position that I can just pack it in if they try to make me go back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted July 10, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted July 10, 2021 21 minutes ago, AndyM3000 said: Curious how many people here are being forced back to the office soon? I'm very concerned about it. I think we will be forced back next month sometime, I'll have to sit next to unvaccinated people who also won't wear masks and while that's their choice it doesn't sit easy with me. Our work has been more productive from home as well, we have zero need to return to an office urgently. We are being invited back. If you have concerns they will be flexible. Due to other reasons as one of our other offices in Brum had to be turfed out were actually only ever going back 2 days a week with once every other Wednesday as they can't fit us all into our office space. My main worry is the trains. I've heard of short formations and multiple cancellations leading to people packed in like sardines. From 19th they should be running a full pre pandemic service I think to avoid overcrowding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM3000 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 9 minutes ago, sidcow said: We are being invited back. If you have concerns they will be flexible. Due to other reasons as one of our other offices in Brum had to be turfed out were actually only ever going back 2 days a week with once every other Wednesday as they can't fit us all into our office space. My main worry is the trains. I've heard of short formations and multiple cancellations leading to people packed in like sardines. From 19th they should be running a full pre pandemic service I think to avoid overcrowding. We are in Brum too, I'm also concerned about the trains as that's my way into town. I often skipped a number of trains before the pandemic just because of how rammed they were. Our company won't be flexible, unfortunately we have desktop PCs we all took home and they don't seem to want to buy us laptops in order to do some hybrid working. It's either one or the other. I'm expecting an announcement next week, they haven't even consulted the staff at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Genie Posted July 10, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 10, 2021 I’m now in the double jabbed club I was pleased to see the really good turnout at the walk in centre this morning. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 25 minutes ago, sidcow said: My main worry is the trains. I've heard of short formations and multiple cancellations leading to people packed in like sardines. From 19th they should be running a full pre pandemic service I think to avoid overcrowding. 11 minutes ago, AndyM3000 said: We are in Brum too, I'm also concerned about the trains as that's my way into town. I often skipped a number of trains before the pandemic just because of how rammed they were. There has been a bit of research on covid transmission in trains, but it can be quite frustrating because trains can be very different from each other. The most common study you will find with a quick Google is a study of transmission rates on Chinese high speed trains, but this is not necessarily applicable to the type of rolling stock used for commuting into Birmingham. There is one guy who writes about this from a Birmingham perspective, called Chris Baker. This was one of his recent posts, which makes clear that it makes a big difference a] how a train is ventilated, ie whether it has an air conditioning system or windows, and then b] if windows, whether the windows are open or not: '...there are trains that rely on window opening for ventilation – not least the Class 323s on the Cross City line in Birmingham – the trains that I travel on most frequently. How does the ventilation of these trains compare with that for air-conditioned trains.? For such trains the ventilation mechanism will be what can be referred to as shear layer ventilation – the flow in and out of the train windows and doors due to the relative air movement when the train is moving, or due to wind effects when the train is stationary. In some work from about 20 years ago, a research student and myself derived the simple expression shown below for shear layer ventilation for wind passing across an opening in a large box structure. [...] The simplicity of this method needs to be emphasised and the results should only be regarded as approximations. Nonetheless they are of interest. Firstly the figures suggest that with all windows open, the ventilation of the Class 323 is twice as high as on a typical air conditioned system. This ties in with my personal experience – when the windows are open to this extent in the summer, there is a strong (and if the weather is hot, pleasant) draft through the carriage. If only half the windows are open, the overall ventilation is equivalent to an air conditioned system. Secondly, the amount of ventilation due to doors opening in stations is small in comparison to the maximum window ventilation. This leads to the third point – if all the windows are shut (as would be the case in the winter) the overall ventilation is well below the air-conditioned case. It is perhaps for such vehicles in such conditions that we should look for the critical case of pathogen transmission on trains.' from: https://profchrisbaker.com/2021/05/09/covid-19-and-train-ventilation/ I know that's far from a definitive answer, but there probably isn't a definitive answer. Basically, if you can open a window, do so, and stand as near to it as possible. The other recommendation I would make is if you need to take journeys and are worried about them, buy yourself a proper mask, not a paper or cloth one from Tesco. You can get medical grade masks for around a tenner on Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=n95+mask&i=diy&crid=NYOX91ITZ1HI&sprefix=n95+m%2Cdiy%2C174&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted July 10, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted July 10, 2021 1 hour ago, PaulC said: I know we can't lockdown forever but cases are rising dramatically every week, despite the vaccine rollout, hospital cases are rising by about the same amount and deaths are starting to rise again. I'd simply invest some time looking at the stats - this wave is radically different to previous waves. Vaccines are working. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Infection risks aside, people should be protesting against the idea of surrendering hours and hours of their week to rush hour commutes again when for the vast majority of office workers, it's been shown that working from home is not only possible, but for a lot of companies has lost productivity. Companies have been denying this was possible for years, not they've been forced to accomodate it and shown it works, perhaps not universally, but certainly for a big chunk of workers. Flexibility and keeping reduced offices for those who need them is the route forward IMO, I know not everyone wants to work from home constantly, and some don't have the space to want to WFH at all and it's been a shit 18 months for them working from the sofa or even from beds, that can't continue. I'll have submitted my notice within minutes of an announcement that people *must* return, though. Not happening. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 8 minutes ago, Jareth said: I'd simply invest some time looking at the stats - this wave is radically different to previous waves. Vaccines are working. I have and I know but I am still very very concerned. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 47 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Infection risks aside, people should be protesting against the idea of surrendering hours and hours of their week to rush hour commutes again when for the vast majority of office workers, it's been shown that working from home is not only possible, but for a lot of companies has lost productivity. Companies have been denying this was possible for years, not they've been forced to accomodate it and shown it works, perhaps not universally, but certainly for a big chunk of workers. Flexibility and keeping reduced offices for those who need them is the route forward IMO, I know not everyone wants to work from home constantly, and some don't have the space to want to WFH at all and it's been a shit 18 months for them working from the sofa or even from beds, that can't continue. I'll have submitted my notice within minutes of an announcement that people *must* return, though. Not happening. All the noises from my place are that things won’t be going back to how they were. I think a 3:2 / home:office split will happen. The companywide messages that go out are all about coming back and collaborating again, it’s safe etc etc. The local messages are to not bother coming in if you’re just joining teams meetings. Stay at home (unless you want to go in anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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