Generic Virus Thread

[desensitized43]

Another massive TFL bailout due to a collapse in demand with everyone working from home. Total of £4 billion handed out now. Raises eyebrowse when the rest of country is still using slow, crowded and generally disgusting diesel trains to get around.

[HanoiVillan]

2 minutes ago, desensitized43 said:

Another massive TFL bailout due to a collapse in demand with everyone working from home. Total of £4 billion handed out now. Raises eyebrowse when the rest of country is still using slow, crowded and generally disgusting diesel trains to get around.

TFL is actually extremely important, and the government has been using its financial crisis - which is of course not in any way the service's own fault here - to wrestle power from Sadiq Khan. The money may have been 'handed out' - the alternative was complete collapse and the end of all services - but it comes with the condition attached that they need to find £900m of 'savings' (cuts).

[chrisp65]

I know someone that will be absolutely fmuing if the TFL service gets even worse because of this.

[Davkaus]

7 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

 but it comes with the condition attached that they need to find £900m of 'savings' (cuts).

It's a smart move. Levelling down London is certainly an awful lot easier than "levelling up" the north.

[Genie]

15 hours ago, sidcow said:

From a purely selfish point of view I hope they do still proceed as my daughter has a school prom early July and we've already bought the dress! 

Similar here, it’s my daughters birthday on June 23rd and we’ve got a party pencilled in. Can’t see it happening tbh.

[desensitized43]

45 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

TFL is actually extremely important, and the government has been using its financial crisis - which is of course not in any way the service's own fault here - to wrestle power from Sadiq Khan. The money may have been 'handed out' - the alternative was complete collapse and the end of all services - but it comes with the condition attached that they need to find £900m of 'savings' (cuts).

I don't doubt that TFL is being used as a political football - certainly sounds like something the Tories would do. You're right that they didn't cause the complete collapse in demand for their services.

There seems to be an underlying assumption that at the end of this there'll be a rebound and everyone will go back to offices, start going to London on business or to visit etc in anything like the numbers in 2019. Is that realistic? How long will it take to get back to the level of utilisation we saw pre-pandemic? Do we continue to hand out tonnes of cash for another 3/4/5 years? I'm no Tory, far from it, but is it really unreasonable for TFL to be asked to put on less busses and trains while no bugger is using them? Could we use that money to do some electrification or other service improvement in areas that have had to take a shocking level of service for decades?

I don't buy that there would have been a complete collapse and end of all services. No one is going to wake up tomorrow and the tube is closed for lack of money.

[sidcow]

1 hour ago, desensitized43 said:

Another massive TFL bailout due to a collapse in demand with everyone working from home. Total of £4 billion handed out now. Raises eyebrowse when the rest of country is still using slow, crowded and generally disgusting diesel trains to get around.

That cost a hell of a lot more to ride on in the first place too. 

[HanoiVillan]

12 minutes ago, desensitized43 said:

There seems to be an underlying assumption that at the end of this there'll be a rebound and everyone will go back to offices, start going to London on business or to visit etc in anything like the numbers in 2019. Is that realistic? How long will it take to get back to the level of utilisation we saw pre-pandemic?

It's certainly not the case that 'no bugger is using' TFL services; Tube ridership is now back to about 60% of pre-pandemic levels. This is still a very large number of people needing to be transported around the city.

14 minutes ago, desensitized43 said:

 Do we continue to hand out tonnes of cash for another 3/4/5 years?

Well, it costs money to run the network. And thanks to an agreement between former Mayor Boris Johnson, and former Transport Secretary Chris Grayling, TFL is almost uniquely dependent on ticket sales for its funding. Passenger fares account for 72% of TFL's funding; the equivalent figure for both Paris and New York is 38%. The great trick the Tories have successfully pulled on you is to think that the current situation is unreasonable generosity, rather than starvation funding.

18 minutes ago, desensitized43 said:

I don't buy that there would have been a complete collapse and end of all services. No one is going to wake up tomorrow and the tube is closed for lack of money.

The deadlines that the Tories keep running up against are deadlines at which TFL would need to declare bankruptcy. I agree with you that the government aren't actually going to go over that precipice, but that's the threat that they keep waving, as they offer yet another short-term extension, which will provide yet another cliff-edge, and on and on we go.

[sidcow]

1 minute ago, HanoiVillan said:

Well, it costs money to run the network. And thanks to an agreement between former Mayor Boris Johnson, and former Transport Secretary Chris Grayling, TFL is almost uniquely dependent on ticket sales for its funding. Passenger fares account for 72% of TFL's funding; the equivalent figure for both Paris and New York is 38%. 

I don't know anything about funding but what I do know is that a couple of years ago I rode the tube from Uxbridge to Wembley, journey of 12 stations / 12 miles there and back for less than the 1 way bus ticket from Shirley to Solihull a distance of 1.5 miles. 

So either TFL are not charging enough for their tickets or someone is actually sucking money out of West Midlands buses rather than funding them to any extent. 

 

[desensitized43]

11 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

It's certainly not the case that 'no bugger is using' TFL services; Tube ridership is now back to about 60% of pre-pandemic levels. This is still a very large number of people needing to be transported around the city.

Well, it costs money to run the network. And thanks to an agreement between former Mayor Boris Johnson, and former Transport Secretary Chris Grayling, TFL is almost uniquely dependent on ticket sales for its funding. Passenger fares account for 72% of TFL's funding; the equivalent figure for both Paris and New York is 38%. The great trick the Tories have successfully pulled on you is to think that the current situation is unreasonable generosity, rather than starvation funding.

The deadlines that the Tories keep running up against are deadlines at which TFL would need to declare bankruptcy. I agree with you that the government aren't actually going to go over that precipice, but that's the threat that they keep waving, as they offer yet another short-term extension, which will provide yet another cliff-edge, and on and on we go.

I don't disagree that in large part this is a situation that the Tories have made worse with pathetic political games because they hate Khan. I don't know about how London's funding arrangements compare to NY or Paris but if the network is majority paid for by fares then it seems that if there are fewer people using services and thus fewer fares then a conversation should be had about, at least temporarily whether there should be less frequent trains or buses?

The last thing I want is for people to lose jobs, but at some point an assessment needs to be made if TFL should be running at the level it is.

[a m ole]

10 minutes ago, sidcow said:

either TFL are not charging enough for their tickets

[sidcow]

12 minutes ago, a m ole said:

Like I said, cheaper for a for a long distance tube ticket (including return) than a short journey one way West Midlands bus ticket

Edited June 1, 2021 by sidcow

[a m ole]

On the 25th May, someone died.

On the 26th May, someone died.

On the 27th May, someone died.

On the 28th May, someone died.

On the 29th May, someone died.

On the 30th May, someone died.

On the 31st May, someone died.

On the 1st June, no-one died.

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by a m ole

[Seat68]

10 minutes ago, a m ole said:

On the 25th May, someone died.

On the 26th May, someone died.

On the 27th May, someone died.

On the 28th May, someone died.

On the 29th May, someone died.

On the 30th May, someone died.

On the 31st May, someone died.

On the 1st June, no-one died.

 

[HanoiVillan]

Very good:

(from: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/ng-interactive/2021/may/22/stephen-collins-on-green-list-countries-cartoon)

[Mark Albrighton]

17 minutes ago, a m ole said:

On the 25th May, someone died.

On the 26th May, someone died.

On the 27th May, someone died.

On the 28th May, someone died.

On the 29th May, someone died.

On the 30th May, someone died.

On the 31st May, someone died.

On the 1st June, no-one died.

 

On the 2nd of June there was the incident with the pigeon...

[HanoiVillan]

A piece of positive news:

 

[Xela]

20 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

A piece of positive news:

 

The usual doom merchants in the media will be along to shit over that soon enough. 

[bickster]

3 hours ago, sidcow said:

I don't know anything about funding but what I do know is that a couple of years ago I rode the tube from Uxbridge to Wembley, journey of 12 stations / 12 miles there and back for less than the 1 way bus ticket from Shirley to Solihull a distance of 1.5 miles. 

So either TFL are not charging enough for their tickets or someone is actually sucking money out of West Midlands buses rather than funding them to any extent. 

 

One is public infrastructure, the other is a private business handed money by the government on unprofitable routes

It isn't that London prices have to go up, the others should come down by taking the whole shebang back under public control.

Already happening in Manchester and about to happen on Merseyside. Mayors on the left of the political spectrum and in Birmingham they voted in....

Anyway, virus talk.

[villakram]

Further evidence of important side effects from the "vaccines". This time related to the Pfizer version, where a heart condition is being seen in populations of young people. Fortunately, to balance things out, this appears to be most common in males, after the earlier female favored clotting issue. It is not clear if there are correlated factors in the affected individuals, e.g., medical conditions.

"Israel’s Health Ministry said on Tuesday it had found the small number of heart inflammation cases observed mainly in young men who received Pfizer’s (PFE.N) COVID-19 vaccine in Israel were likely linked to their vaccination."

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-sees-probable-link-between-pfizer-vaccine-small-number-myocarditis-cases-2021-06-01/