bickster Posted April 4, 2021 Moderator Share Posted April 4, 2021 1 minute ago, sidcow said: Just stay at home or do something else instead. Why should I? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted April 4, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted April 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, bickster said: Why should I? Because you don't want to comply with the safety rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 4, 2021 Moderator Share Posted April 4, 2021 Just now, sidcow said: Because you don't want to comply with the safety rules. Its not a safety rule 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted April 4, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted April 4, 2021 Just now, bickster said: Its not a safety rule It's a rule to try and stop the spread of Covid. That's why they are suggesting it If there was no danger this wouldn't even be an issue. Of course it's a safety issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bickster Posted April 4, 2021 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted April 4, 2021 1 minute ago, sidcow said: It's a rule to try and stop the spread of Covid. That's why they are suggesting it If there was no danger this wouldn't even be an issue. Of course it's a safety issue. Why arent they suggesting it for supermarkets then? Or visiting the park? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 I'm against vaccine passports but that doesn't mean I'm a rabid anti vaxxer. I'm just rabid I'm delighted to be getting my jab this coming Saturday. From what I understand it will take a while for this 'app' to come out, by at which point surely most people will be vaccinated? (the ones that want to anyway) So what is the point of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 50 minutes ago, sidcow said: Because you don't want to comply with the safety rules. Doesn’t want to divulge the data to the place he wants to go that he’s already divulged to the world on the internet. Its a ridiculous thing to get on your high horse about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 4, 2021 Moderator Share Posted April 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, Genie said: Doesn’t want to divulge the data to the place he wants to go that he’s already divulged to the world on the internet. Its a ridiculous thing to get on your high horse about. You realise me telling people I'm going somewhere has absolutely no bearing on my trust in that place to store my biometric data correctly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, bickster said: You realise me telling people I'm going somewhere has absolutely no bearing on my trust in that place to store my biometric data correctly? and what if they lose it? Or post it on their Facebook page? BICKS HAS HAD A VACCINE!!! It’s like hackers having access to your hair colour, after you’d already told everyone. It doesn’t matter. You’d just be spiting yourself. Edited April 4, 2021 by Genie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blandy Posted April 4, 2021 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted April 4, 2021 Vaccine passports for travel abroad, I'm fine with. Like needing a visa to visit countries. It's up to a nation to set a precondition for people to enter that nation. Vaccine passes for the internal UK, for Pubs etc. is, never mind the ideology, completely daft. The reason is practicality beyond anything else. I mean when don't the government screw up, when it comes to anything remotely technology based? Remember the Covid contact tracing app that Matt Hancock was going to introduce to save us all. Didn't get off the ground, did it? So is it bits of paper? they can't be photocopied or forged can they? Who's going to enforce it? Who's going to be the people working in the pubs? That's right, mostly younger people who haven't been vaccinated. Who's going to detect forgeries? Who's going to address the issue of people without smart phones and NHS apps? who's going to be able to tell the difference between an app and a screenshot of an app that says "safe". Unless you've got police on the door of every venue spending their whole time checking certificates and apps, it's unworkable. And of course it's unworkable because the Police can't and won't do that. Unless you wait until everyone has had the chance to be vaccinated, whether they chose not to be or were not able to be vaccinated or not it's very discriminatory, and after everyone but those who can't or won't be vaccinated, it's still highly discriminatory, and by that time the risk should, finger crossed, be really low of spreading or catching it anyway. It's essentially unworkable and unfair. I imagine they'll try and do it then! 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 40 minutes ago, blandy said: Vaccine passports for travel abroad, I'm fine with. Like needing a visa to visit countries. It's up to a nation to set a precondition for people to enter that nation. Vaccine passes for the internal UK, for Pubs etc. is, never mind the ideology, completely daft. The reason is practicality beyond anything else. I mean why don't the government screw up, when it comes to anything remotely technology based? Remember the Covid contact tracing app that Matt Hancock was going to introduce to save us all. Didn't get off the ground, did it? So is it bits of paper? they can't be photocopied or forged can they? Who's going to enforce it? Who's going to be the people working in the pubs? That's right, mostly younger people who haven't been vaccinated. Who's going to detect forgeries? Who's going to address the issue of people without smart phones and NHS apps? who's going to be able to tell the difference between an app and a screenshot of an app that says "safe". Unless you've got police on the door of every venue spending their whole time checking certificates and apps, it's unworkable. And of course it's unworkable because the Police can't and won't do that. Unless you wait until everyone has had the chance to be vaccinated, whether they chose not to be or were not able to be vaccinated or not it's very discriminatory, and after everyone but those who can't or won't be vaccinated, it's still highly discriminatory, and by that time the risk should, finger crossed, be really low of spreading or catching it anyway. It's essentially unworkable and unfair. I imagine they'll try and do it then! I assume many of those questions will be answered pretty quickly by the trials and it will be abandoned. No real harm in giving it a go for now and trialling other things like testing before big events like Cup finals, but we are doing so well with the vaccines that I assume by the time we get round to finding out the results it will be largely unnecessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister_a Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 (edited) Vaccine passports create an underclass, those who won't, don't or can't (for medical reasons) have the vaccine. If you can't see a problem with government restrictions on free movement in a supposedly free country because you can't wait to get to the pub, then I feel sorry for your level of analysis. In the time it takes to set these things up, a very large percentage of the population will have already had the vaccine, rendering them pointless, so what's the point of them. It's creeping authoritarianism by a government that knows it can get away with it. I'll sum it up in a meme for those who are hard of thinking. Edited April 4, 2021 by Mister_a 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted April 4, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted April 4, 2021 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Mister_a said: Vaccine passports create an underclass, those who won't, don't or can't (for medical reasons) have the vaccine. If you can't see a problem with government restrictions on free movement in a supposedly free country because you can't wait to get to the pub, then I feel sorry for your level of analysis. In the time it takes to set these things up, a very large percentage of the population will have already had the vaccine, rendering them pointless, so what's the point of them. It's creeping authoritarianism by a government that knows it can get away with it. I'll sum it up in a meme for those who are hard of thinking. Vaccine passports create an underclass, those who won't, don't or can't (for medical reasons) have the vaccine. No they don't. It's been made absolutely clear that if you've not been vaccinated that a recent negative test or evidence of antibodies will suffice. This comparison to identity cards is just ridiculous. It's just holding very specific limited information about your Covid status. It's a temporary measure. If they're still insisting on it once Covid recedes there will be outcry, election losing outcry. I posed the question earlier and not had a response. What's the alternative? Everyone seems keen to slate it but no one is saying what we should do because doing nothing is not an option. Edited April 4, 2021 by sidcow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 4, 2021 Moderator Share Posted April 4, 2021 This could be a little amusing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister_a Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 30 minutes ago, sidcow said: Vaccine passports create an underclass, those who won't, don't or can't (for medical reasons) have the vaccine. No they don't. It's been made absolutely clear that if you've not been vaccinated that a recent negative test or evidence of antibodies will suffice. This comparison to identity cards is just ridiculous. It's just holding very specific limited information about your Covid status. It's a temporary measure. If they're still insisting on it once Covid recedes there will be outcry, election losing outcry. I posed the question earlier and not had a response. What's the alternative? Everyone seems keen to slate it but no one is saying what we should do because doing nothing is not an option. The option is to accept that COVID isn’t going anywhere. Once the vaccinations have bought it under control, it should be dealt with like seasonal flu, with perhaps some regional action if needed. The electorate don’t do outrage any more, see Bojo and 100k to his mistress, no one gives a shit. Temporary measure.... Milton Friedman said ‘Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program.’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted April 4, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted April 4, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Mister_a said: The option is to accept that COVID isn’t going anywhere. Once the vaccinations have bought it under control, it should be dealt with like seasonal flu, with perhaps some regional action if needed. The electorate don’t do outrage any more, see Bojo and 100k to his mistress, no one gives a shit. Temporary measure.... Milton Friedman said ‘Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program.’ I'm sure it will. But before then we've got to open up night clubs, cinemas and theatres, sports. Etc before the booster jabs are issued and probably South African and Brazilian variants are circulating in the UK. The Government has rightly had enormous criticism for their handling of Covid, been accused of not putting in place the right procedures and causing unnecessary deaths. There is not a chance in hell they're just going to open up mass attendance close quarter venues with zero control. These very pages would be full of outrage if the deaths started racking up again. Next spring when the boosters have been given for the new variants I am sure there will be no need for these and normality resumes. If they maintain it at that time I will be shoulder to shoulder at the front with my pitchfork and flaming torch. Until then I just don't see what else can be done. I'm not going to be commenting any further on this point. Lines have clearly been drawn in the sand and I'm on the other side to others, there doesn't seem to be any point in further squabbling so I will leave it there. Edited April 4, 2021 by sidcow 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 4, 2021 Moderator Share Posted April 4, 2021 14 minutes ago, Mister_a said: Temporary measure.... Milton Friedman said ‘Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program.’ There was a law introduced in 2004 banning the import of potatoes from Poland (funny how no one mentioned it during Brexit). It was a temporary measure as Poland had some form of spud disease at the time. Still illegal to this day. Just one of many many temporary laws enacted by government that never get repealed. iirc the Prevention of Terrorism Act was introduced as a temporary measure 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 4, 2021 Moderator Share Posted April 4, 2021 1 minute ago, sidcow said: But before then we've got to open up night clubs, cinemas and theatres, sports. Who said this has to happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted April 4, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted April 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, bickster said: Who said this has to happen? Well pretty much everyone in the known Universe except you Bicks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister_a Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, sidcow said: I'm sure it will. But before then we've got to open up night clubs, cinemas and theatres, sports. Etc before the booster jabs are issued and probably South African and Brazilian variants are circulating in the UK. The Government has rightly had enormous criticism for their handling of Covid, been accused of not putting in place the right procedures and causing unnecessary deaths. There is not a chance in hell they're just going to open up mass attendance close quarter venues with zero control. These very pages would be full of outrage if the deaths started racking up again. Next spring when the boosters have been given for the new variants I am sure there will be no need for these and normality resumes. If they maintain it at that time I will be shoulder to shoulder at the front with my pitchfork and flaming torch. Until then I just don't see what else can be done. I'm not going to be commenting any further on this point. Lines have clearly been drawn in the sand and I'm on the other side to others, there doesn't seem to be any point in further squabbling so I will leave it there. It’s a difficult one to solve, and people have and are entitled to their views. I respect that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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