OutByEaster? Posted April 4, 2021 Moderator Share Posted April 4, 2021 5 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I’m against them if it means differentiating between the young that haven’t had the option of a vaccine and the older that have insisted we all play by the safety rules right up until the point they were alright jack. Me too, but I don't think that will be a problem given the timescales. The govt hasn't yet issued any guidance to pubs other than "sort yourselves out and once we've decided what the rules are it'll be your fault if you haven't guessed correctly" and I think by the time we have any sort of regulation, especially one like passports that would require enforcement, everyone will have been vaccinated anyway - in the midlands we're reaching a point where almost all the over 40's have had their first vaccination and I'd think we'll have every adult done with at least a first vaccine by the time we have full pub opening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: I hate that expression 'anti vaxxers' becaude someone is scared of having a vaccine why is that person a antivaxxer? Another way to have the media to have people turn on each other I’m talking about the type of people that think Bill Gates is injecting us with microchips. The type of people that say ‘plandemic’ and think it’s some kind of ‘great reset’, or whatever nonsense they are peddling this week. Being concerned/scared is human nature. I felt the same to a certain extent, but I trust the science and the scientists involved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 12 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I’m against them if it means differentiating between the young that haven’t had the option of a vaccine and the older that have insisted we all play by the safety rules right up until the point they were alright jack. It’s only what I’ve seen, but it’s the young “I’ve got an immune system so don’t need a vaccine” that are pushing to get the pubs open and let them go on holiday more so than the older ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 4, 2021 Moderator Share Posted April 4, 2021 21 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: I'm against them and I'm about as far from that description as you could get. I would imagine that most people that are against them are a world removed from either the Nazis or the Hippies, shall we cal them the Cosmic Nazis, they are against them because they won't be allowed in. There will be a MUCH bigger group of people against them from the Civil Liberty angle 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 1 minute ago, bickster said: I would imagine that most people that are against them are a world removed from either the Nazis or the Hippies, shall we cal them the Cosmic Nazis, they are against them because they won't be allowed in. There will be a MUCH bigger group of people against them from the Civil Liberty algle What’s the issue with Civil Liberties? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sidcow Posted April 4, 2021 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted April 4, 2021 I find it hillarious that people are happy to carry round a mobile phone beaming their every movement and huge amounts of personal information to all sorts of commercial organisations and are equally happy to post every detail of their lives on social media and are perfectly happy to open accounts on dozens of websites who spend their time spying on them. Yet are up in arms at the thought of having a bit of software on their phone confirming they've had an injection or a test. If that is of genuine concern to you, you really need to ditch the mobile phone and withdraw completely from the Internet because that's where your information is being hung out to all and sundry. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 4, 2021 Moderator Share Posted April 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, Genie said: What’s the issue with Civil Liberties? Repeating myself is against mine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 That's one hell of a false equivalence. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, bickster said: Repeating myself is against mine Apologies, I missed it. Im not sure what the issue is personally. Everything I have done, bought, been, looked at, spoken to, seen, eaten, weighed, applied for, passed, failed for the last 10 is in my phone. If there’s an app that says I’ve had a vaccine or not then I can’t see the negative consequence of that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 A personal profile where you choose which info to broadcast and location information is not even remotely similar to health data. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said: A personal profile where you choose which info to broadcast and location information is not even remotely similar to health data. How so? Many people have apps that record their health information, blood information, heart rate, prescriptions, medications, weight, BMI etc. What’s the difference to something you consciously share upon request to confirm your vaccination status? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 4, 2021 Moderator Share Posted April 4, 2021 Just now, StefanAVFC said: A personal profile where you choose which info to broadcast and location information is not even remotely similar to health data. And without putting too fine a point on it, that is the individuals choice to do that. This is one very small step removed from being forced to carry biometric ID. Noy only that but the individual must decide whether they trust the establishments they will be visiting to store that data in an appropriately secure way. And until and act of parliament says otherwise, they shouldn't be revealing that data to anyone, including The Police and even more importantl;y local council officials. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, bickster said: And without putting too fine a point on it, that is the individuals choice to do that. This is one very small step removed from being forced to carry biometric ID. Noy only that but the individual must decide whether they trust the establishments they will be visiting to store that data in an appropriately secure way. And until and act of parliament says otherwise, they shouldn't be revealing that data to anyone, including The Police and even more importantl;y local council officials. Still not sure what the issue is. Quote The government is looking at developing a system over the coming months which will consider three factors: vaccination, a recent negative test, or natural immunity determined on the basis of a positive test taken in the previous six months. Sky News These are things that people in here and across social media and in person discuss openly. Why are we so precious about it being stored on our phone or the pub logging it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 4, 2021 Moderator Share Posted April 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, Genie said: Still not sure what the issue is. Sky News These are things that people in here and across social media and in person discuss openly. Why are we so precious about it being stored on our phone or the pub logging it? personal choice 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 1 minute ago, bickster said: personal choice Your vaccination status is currently stored in the phones of hundreds of VT members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 4, 2021 Moderator Share Posted April 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Genie said: Your vaccination status is currently stored in the phones of hundreds of VT members. I chose to do that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted April 4, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted April 4, 2021 48 minutes ago, bickster said: And without putting too fine a point on it, that is the individuals choice to do that. This is one very small step removed from being forced to carry biometric ID. Noy only that but the individual must decide whether they trust the establishments they will be visiting to store that data in an appropriately secure way. And until and act of parliament says otherwise, they shouldn't be revealing that data to anyone, including The Police and even more importantl;y local council officials. Nobody is being forced to go to a nightclub or pop concert. That's a conscious decision. No one has to have the passport. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 4, 2021 Moderator Share Posted April 4, 2021 5 minutes ago, sidcow said: Nobody is being forced to go to a nightclub or pop concert. That's a conscious decision. No one has to have the passport. I'm being forced to divulge sensitive biometric data to a third party that will likely not have the neccessary secutity measures in place to store that data nor are they likely to understand who legally has access to that sensitive data in order to attend an event open to the public That isn't freedom, that has affected my civil liberties Regaining your freedom to attend events should not come at the price of reducing your freedom Ask yourself this, if something happens during a gig, will the police be able to access that data? If so, why should they need that data? And why will I automatically become part of a police investigation if the event that occured was nothing to do with me? Also ask yourself why this isn't being currently considered for large shops (yet) and will it be? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 12 minutes ago, sidcow said: Nobody is being forced to go to a nightclub or pop concert. That's a conscious decision. No one has to have the passport. This is a very fair point. If it’s for certain things (like concerts, football etc), people have the choice. Either get your passport and go, or don’t. I’m not for the vaccine or the passport being mandatory. If people choose not have one, that’s fine, but if some places want to say, you can only come here if you have had the vaccine and have proof, I think that’s a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted April 4, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted April 4, 2021 Just now, bickster said: I'm being forced to divulge sensitive biometric data to a third party that will likely not have the neccessary secutity measures in place to store that data nor are they likely to understand who legally has access to that sensitive data in order to attend an event open to the public That isn't freedom, that has affected my civil liberties Regaining your freedom to attend events should not come at the price of reducing your freedom Ask yourself this, if something happens during a gig, will the police be able to access that data? If so, why should they need that data? And why will I automatically become part of a police investigation if the event that occured was nothing to do with me? Also ask yourself why this isn't being currently considered for large shops (yet) and will it be? I don't know how many times I have to say it. No one is being forced to do anything. No one has to download it. Just stay at home or do something else instead. I'm yet to hear what the alternative is. Leave everything closed for another year? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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