Generic Virus Thread

[sharkyvilla]

4 hours ago, TrentVilla said:

I don't think it is tough at all to be honest despite the huge noise made by and for teachers.

There is absolutely no statistical basis to support the call for education staff to be prioritised and quite a lot that says they shouldn't, had the Gov prioritised them it would have been a purely political decision. Well done them for standing firm.

I work in an industry connected to education and it isn't the teachers that have created the fuss it is the unions on a membership drive who have pushed this agenda. Teachers are no more on the front line that those who work in Sainsbury's.

I was surprised by the stats Van Tam read out about how much less at risk teachers are than people in the food industry.  I think it was about a fifth.  Also when he talked about doing it by age, for speed rather than targeting different professions.  Until then I my opinion was to get teachers, police, transport workers etc done first.  It sometimes amazes me what listening to an expert with some evidence can do.

[darrenm]

7 hours ago, TrentVilla said:

I don't think it is tough at all to be honest despite the huge noise made by and for teachers.

There is absolutely no statistical basis to support the call for education staff to be prioritised and quite a lot that says they shouldn't, had the Gov prioritised them it would have been a purely political decision. Well done them for standing firm.

I work in an industry connected to education and it isn't the teachers that have created the fuss it is the unions on a membership drive who have pushed this agenda. Teachers are no more on the front line that those who work in Sainsbury's.

I know quite a few teachers and they're all really worried about not being vaccinated. I'm sure you're right about the unions making it an issue but it doesn't mean teachers aren't worried about going back.

You're right though, they shouldn't be in any more risk than a supermarket worker. Perhaps they also should have been bumped up the queue? When they do 40-50 I'll be in that list which seems bizarre because I WFH.

[TrentVilla]

18 minutes ago, darrenm said:

I know quite a few teachers and they're all really worried about not being vaccinated. I'm sure you're right about the unions making it an issue but it doesn't mean teachers aren't worried about going back.

You're right though, they shouldn't be in any more risk than a supermarket worker. Perhaps they also should have been bumped up the queue? When they do 40-50 I'll be in that list which seems bizarre because I WFH.

I run a business that employees hundreds of teachers, some are worried some aren’t they are really no different to any other group. Many have been working throughout the lockdown and have been happy to do so. They are at no greater risk than many many other groups of workers, in fact statistics show they are in fact at far less risk than many other groups of workers. That some teachers are worried is not justification to put them to the top of the list. 

There is no medical or statistical basis to support the call for them to be vaccinated. It is purely media and union pressure. 

The roll out is being done on age because it is the most effective way to roll it out to people at speed and working through the people most at risk. Trying to do it by profession would be a logistical nightmare that would slow down the vaccination process and would do nothing other than play to union pressure and the fears of some which are really no greater than those of workers from far less unionised and represented workers.

[sidcow]

5 hours ago, sharkyvilla said:

It sometimes amazes me what listening to an expert with some evidence can do.

Quick, someone tell Facebook

[mjmooney]

13 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Quick, someone tell Facebook

 

[sidcow]

I guess teachers tend to stand, fairly distant at the front of the class for most of the time, and if it's to be believed kids are not great carriers of the disease. 

Whereas shop workers are mostly in fairly close proximity to literally hundreds of different adults from all type of backgrounds. 

I am 100% sure teachers needs to get back to their jobs because my kids education has suffered tremendously and so many kids will be having mental health issues.  

They don't appear to be any more at risk than many other occupations who have to go into a working environment.  If you are looking at professions meat and fish processors seem to have a lot of mass outbreaks because of the cool indoor environments. As soon as you agree to go down professions route you would have to hit the ones with the most cases first, the whole thing would get very messy. 

I will never be able to square the circle of a fit 25 year old whoever getting it ahead of a 49 year old so I agree with what they are doing. 

[Genie]

I’m seeing so many adverts for end of lockdown parties, celebrations in mid-June. 
With everybody not getting their first vaccination until end of July it does look a little bit premature.
Relying on common sense is not a useful tool still.

[HanoiVillan]

3 hours ago, Genie said:

I’m seeing so many adverts for end of lockdown parties, celebrations in mid-June. 
With everybody not getting their first vaccination until end of July it does look a little bit premature.
Relying on common sense is not a useful tool still.

I strongly disagree with the bolded. One of the main issues throughout the whole stupid situation has been an over-reliance on rules ahead of people being given sensible advice. From people being interviewed at Cheltenham last year saying they were fine because they'd used the hand sanitiser, to offices - including my own, at a university no less! - insisting that people could be unmasked in the same room together if they were more than 6 feet apart or for in the room for less than 15 minutes, through to all the idiocy about closing outdoor play areas, the single main through line is that most people don't understand the basics of how the virus infects people, and the reason they don't understand it is because *rules* replaced *explanation and advice* right from the start.

It is highly highly likely that there will be almost no community transmission of the virus by the end of June IMO, and the groups accounting for more than 99% of deaths and more than 90% of serious illness will have long had their second dose. We are once again talking about the rules, rather than an appraisal of what the public health picture is likely to be.

[sidcow]

3 hours ago, Genie said:

I’m seeing so many adverts for end of lockdown parties, celebrations in mid-June. 
With everybody not getting their first vaccination until end of July it does look a little bit premature.
Relying on common sense is not a useful tool still.

Yes, I'm definitely thinking we're going to be seeing spikes. In June/July but hopefully there won't be enough in  circulation at that time for it to explode before the last lot of vaccinations take effect, and second jabs are a few weeks into the most vulnerable.  The top risk groups should all have second jabs by end of May so should have the double bubble protection by June/July. 

[chrisp65]

One million doses delivered here, one third of the adult population vaccinated.

5 new cases reported today in my county, 7 the day before, 7 the day before that, population 133,000

 

[trekka]

I walked up to town today to go to the Tesco seeing as the Co-Op next to me is pretty useless and to get some exercise / fresh air.  It was mental - it is almost as if lockdown is over.  The street stalls were back in force selling their phone covers etc alongside bits of fruit and packets of sweets. The number of people I saw wondering around Tesco not keeping their distance etc too was concerning.  Grumble. 

[Genie]

4 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

One of the main issues throughout the whole stupid situation has been an over-reliance on rules ahead of people being given sensible advice.

People don’t follow advice, this is why we had to have rules written into law. The Government tried the whole “use your common sense” at the beginning at it backfired.

Hopefully there will be little community transmission by the end of June when these epic parties are kicking off. 

[HanoiVillan]

18 minutes ago, Genie said:

People don’t follow advice, this is why we had to have rules written into law. The Government tried the whole “use your common sense” at the beginning at it backfired.

That's absolutely not what happened. In practice, the announcement of lockdown occurred because many things were already voluntarily shutting, which was a pretty big sign of common sense right off the bat. Meanwhile government misinformation began early, with Boris boasting about shaking hands with infected people, and scientists insisting that masks were useless (rather than being honest about their limited supply).

[Genie]

28 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

That's absolutely not what happened. In practice, the announcement of lockdown occurred because many things were already voluntarily shutting, which was a pretty big sign of common sense right off the bat. Meanwhile government misinformation began early, with Boris boasting about shaking hands with infected people, and scientists insisting that masks were useless (rather than being honest about their limited supply).

You’ve cherry picked a few events from the very beginning of this 1 year pandemic.

If the government said tomorrow no restrictions but please use your common sense with regards to mixing what do you think would happen?

[HanoiVillan]

4 minutes ago, Genie said:

You’ve cherry picked a few events from the very beginning of this 1 year pandemic.

If the government said tomorrow no restrictions but please use your common sense with regards to mixing what do you think would happen?

You've misunderstood what I'm saying. I'm not saying there should be 'no restrictions'.

I'm saying that there has been a reliance on rules which has given a misleading impression of what is safe and what is dangerous at regular intervals during the pandemic. If one were to go by government and media communication alone, one would assume that going to the beach or the park is more dangerous than working in an office with the windows closed, but that would be completely incorrect. The fact that 'the rules' don't allow the first but do allow the second is one thing, and we can debate about the value or otherwise of those rules bearing in mind the needs of the economy and jobs and mental health and whatever else, but what I think is very clear is that those rules have not been accompanied by good communication about what are more and less risky behaviours.

[Genie]

15 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

If one were to go by government and media communication alone, one would assume that going to the beach or the park is more dangerous than working in an office with the windows closed, but that would be completely incorrect

Nobody thinks that do they?

As you’ve said, avoiding a complete collapse of the economy if places comply with Covid safety measures is allowed. Same as going to indoor buildings containing lots of other people touching stuff in order keep fed.

Nobody thinks it’s safer in ASDA than Sports Direct.

I’m not sure what the alternative is if you’re suggesting we should have had less rules.

Ive been pretty busy today wallpapering but catching up on some social media it seems like essential shops like the Range, B&M bargains, Poundland plus the super markets have all been rammed today.

Edited February 27, 2021 by Genie

[HanoiVillan]

23 minutes ago, Genie said:

Nobody thinks that do they?

As you’ve said, avoiding a complete collapse of the economy if places comply with Covid safety measures is allowed. Same as going to indoor buildings containing lots of other people touching stuff in order keep fed.

Nobody thinks it’s safer in ASDA than Sports Direct.

I’m not sure what the alternative is if you’re suggesting we should have had less rules. 

There have been 0 - literally zero - workplaces cited for health and safety violations related to covid. However, that does not in any way mean that workplaces have been safe. There was a huge outbreak connected to the DVLA; Leicester was in lockdown for months because of outbreaks that seem to have started or certainly spread through garment factories; countless employers have insisted on people being in the office when they could really do the job from home. Those employers may not have broken specific *rules*, as such, in operating the way they did. The presence of those rules may have led to over-confidence, but the virus does not obey rules. I am suggesting that both better communication, and in some cases better enforcement - less time shouting at people in parks, more time checking places where people are sharing rooms for hours - would have improved health outcomes. Less a question of fewer rules, more a question of them being better targeted and accompanied by more accurate information, so that in edge cases where something may not necessarily be against the rules, but may nevertheless be a bad idea, people can make a more informed decision.

Edited February 27, 2021 by HanoiVillan

[ml1dch]

23 minutes ago, Genie said:

Ive been pretty busy today wallpapering but catching up on some social media it seems like essential shops like the Range, B&M bargains, Poundland plus the super markets have all been rammed today.

I actually was in B&M today and it felt virtually empty.

The fact that they are the size of the Maracana probably helps with that feeling though.

[snowychap]

1 hour ago, Genie said:

People don’t follow advice, this is why we had to have rules written into law

This is rubbish. The guidance/the advice was different from the law and pretty much always has been. All of it (but without making any sense) could be called 'the rules'.

It's a real disappointment that this still fails to hit home.

Edited February 27, 2021 by snowychap

[Genie]

Just now, ml1dch said:

I actually was in B&M today and it felt virtually empty.

The fact that they are the size of the Maracana probably helps with that feeling though.

Which one?

I’ve seen dozens of posts about shops being rammed today. Apparently people had to queue to get out of ASDA. Kingsbury water park was turning people away as it was packed. 50+ people queuing outside the Range.