Generic Virus Thread

[Stevo985]

3 hours ago, fruitvilla said:

While I don't worry too much about unvaccinated people visiting my house ...  surely it is up to me whether I let them in?

As an employer how much do i have to accommodate an antivaxxer?

You could say that about anything.

If it's up to an employer whether they employ someone who is un-vaccinated, surely it's up to them whether they employ someone who is black? Or female? or old?

I think anti-vaxxers are **** mental and they're endangering other people by not getting the vaccine. But I don't think companies should be able to sack employees just because they haven't had the vaccine

[limpid]

6 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

You could say that about anything.

If it's up to an employer whether they employ someone who is un-vaccinated, surely it's up to them whether they employ someone who is black? Or female? or old?

I think anti-vaxxers are **** mental and they're endangering other people by not getting the vaccine. But I don't think companies should be able to sack employees just because they haven't had the vaccine

How would employers protect their staff who cannot take the vaccine?

As the employer (in the UK/EU) does not have the right to ask whether someone hasn't had the vaccine for medical reasons, their only option is to ask for proof of vaccination (or proof of exemption) for all staff. Failing to do this opens the possibility that they get sued in future for failing to protect all of their staff. If they could ask, then those staff could be provided additional protective accommodations.

As current government advice is completely clear that there is no good reason (other than medical) to not be vaccinated I don't think that employers realistically have any choice and I'm surprised this isn't much more widespread. I think that failure to prove vaccination status could be considered gross negligence as it endangers others in the workplace.

IANAL (obvs)

[blandy]

29 minutes ago, limpid said:

their only option is to ask for proof of vaccination (or proof of exemption) for all staff. Failing to do this opens the possibility that they get sued in future for failing to protect all of their staff. If they could ask, then those staff could be provided additional protective accommodations.

They can ask, but there's no obligation for staff to reveal their medical history to the employer, is there? - there's nothing in my contract that requires that I do that. I do have to undertake medical examination(s) if I am sent to that there abroadia, but that's done under a different (short term) contract of employment to work in [wherever].

As you imply, there's kind of a conflict between two different sets of rights and duties.

[markavfc40]

8 hours ago, brommy said:

With an expectation that Mexico was likely be removed from the red list, I cancelled the Paphos holiday just 10 minutes before it would have been charged to my card. 2 hours later the news broke we can go to Mexico. We’re so happy as it’s probably the most luxurious adults-only holiday we’ve ever booked and the price has more than doubled since I took the chance of booking back in January. Better still that the 16 days (including travel) don’t clash with a home game so the number of Villa Park games I’ve missed in the last 35 years is still in single figures.

That is great that everything has worked out perfectly. 

[snowychap]

2 hours ago, limpid said:

How would employers protect their staff who cannot take the vaccine?

As the employer (in the UK/EU) does not have the right to ask whether someone hasn't had the vaccine for medical reasons, their only option is to ask for proof of vaccination (or proof of exemption) for all staff. Failing to do this opens the possibility that they get sued in future for failing to protect all of their staff. If they could ask, then those staff could be provided additional protective accommodations.

As current government advice is completely clear that there is no good reason (other than medical) to not be vaccinated I don't think that employers realistically have any choice and I'm surprised this isn't much more widespread. I think that failure to prove vaccination status could be considered gross negligence as it endangers others in the workplace.

IANAL (obvs)

I think there are, at least, a couple of things, here:

It's not about asking in order to make accommodations for those who are medically unable to get the vaccine, it's about asking in order to dispense with the services of those who are unvaccinated. If it was just about asking in order to accommodate everyone currently employed (as we're potentially talking about dismissing people for being unvaccinated) then that might be a different argument.

On the negligence angle, I'd have thought that it's about the assessment of the level of risk to others, i.e. what level of 'endangerment' there is and how serious the potential effects might be. If the vaccines prevented catching the virus and the transmission of it (rather than mostly reducing the likelihood of developing a serious condition oneself as well as helping to reduce transmission - by an uncertain amount) then I think there would be a stronger case for talking about gross negligence but this isn't the case, is it? Also, one needs to factor in the demographic of the average workforce and thus the inherently lower risk profile, no?

IANAL (obvs, too)

Edited October 8, 2021 by snowychap
pish spelling

[chrisp65]

1 hour ago, limpid said:

 

IANAL (obvs)

 

11 minutes ago, snowychap said:

IANAL (obvs, too)

 

[blandy]

6 hours ago, fruitvilla said:

We're in the strange position here, where if I go to my local restaurant, I have to show proof of my double vaxx. Teachers do not have to get vaccinated to teach in a classroom and the union currently is backing them.

 

33 minutes ago, snowychap said:

Also, one needs to factor in the demographic of the average workforce and thus the inherently lower risk profile, no?

I think @snowychap has maybe addressed the point here - If you go to a restaurant, the double vax status infers that you present a lower risk to the typically adult diners, and is thus a statistically beneficial thing in reducing risk to other people. With the school, and unvaxxed teacher is pretty much putting themselves at risk, but the kids not so much, due to their statistical very low likelihood of suffering more than the mildest effects of the virus - so the balance is perhaps different, though there is the complication of the kids then passing on virus to their family and...etc.

[snowychap]

31 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

44 minutes ago, snowychap said:

IANAL (obvs, too)

 

 

 

[HanoiVillan]

12 hours ago, brommy said:

the most luxurious adults-only holiday we’ve ever booked

[sidcow]

3 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

 

 

Beat me to it you rascal.

[markavfc40]

I am 6 days in now since testing positive. Anyone who has had covid have the symptom of ridiculously cold feet. Like ice cold and can"t get them warm. Along with that I have all other well known symptoms of aching all over, temp fluctuating between 35.5 (normal for me) and 38, sudden sweats and being absolutely knackered not helped by the random sweating and ice cold feet keeping me awake.

[sidcow]

2 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

I am 6 days in now since testing positive. Anyone who has had covid have the symptom of ridiculously cold feet. Like ice cold and can"t get them warm. Along with that I have all other well known symptoms of aching all over, temp fluctuating between 35.5 (normal for me) and 38, sudden sweats and being absolutely knackered not helped by the random sweating and ice cold feet keeping me awake.

One side effect that was being reported last week was damage to toes rather similar to chilblains. 

[brommy]

On 08/10/2021 at 14:26, HanoiVillan said:

Well that's the plan. Although, after getting hugs from 30+ of the 120 at my son's wedding yesterday, I'm hoping the 26 days before departure is long enough to recover from what seems the inevitable 'rona. I've already been told a niece, who I did hug, has tested positive (but is symptom free) this morning. 

[markavfc40]

10th day now since I tested positive and have to say for about 6 days it is probably as ill as I have ever been. Fevers, aching all over, night sweats, feeling totally done in, no taste and no smell. I ended up in A and E on Sunday as my temp was 39 and blood oxygen 93 and I had feet like ice blocks and there was concern I may have sepsis. Last couple of days I have felt a little better but still have very little energy, no taste and smell and a bit of strange thing of when anything touches my skin that is colder than my skin be it clothes or bed sheets I am getting the feeling of wet instead of cold which is horrible when you are in bed as it feels damp. 

I imagine what I have had is considered mild and I dread to think how much worse it could have been had I not been double jabbed. 

[NurembergVillan]

8 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

10th day now since I tested positive and have to say for about 6 days it is probably as ill as I have ever been. Fevers, aching all over, night sweats, feeling totally done in, no taste and no smell. I ended up in A and E on Sunday as my temp was 39 and blood oxygen 93 and I had feet like ice blocks and there was concern I may have sepsis. Last couple of days I have felt a little better but still have very little energy, no taste and smell and a bit of strange thing of when anything touches my skin that is colder than my skin be it clothes or bed sheets I am getting the feeling of wet instead of cold which is horrible when you are in bed as it feels damp. 

I imagine what I have had is considered mild and I dread to think how much worse it could have been had I not been double jabbed. 

Sounds rough mate. Hope you're on the mend soon.

I had a lot of very similar symptoms last week but without the fever or taste and smell.  Cold hands and feet with weird sensation of touch, hot and cold flushes, chest was so tight I couldn't get enough air in to sneeze, aching all over. It was crazy. Tested negative 3 times for Covid, though, so it must've been flu.  It's made me double conscious of Covid though, because what I had was mild compared to the real thing and it was absolutely brutal.

[Vive_La_Villa]

My 6 year old and missus got it on Monday and for all my efforts to avoid them I think I’ve got it too. Will be confirmed tomorrow. 
 

At the moment I just feel tired, mild headache and little feverish. Hopefully that’s as bad as it gets.

@markavfc40 I hope you’re feeling better mate.

[theboyangel]

11yr old daughter got it at school Tuesday (tested negative in the morning but positive in the evening) and confirmed with a PCR test yesterday.

Fortunately she is pretty much symptom free and feeling ok but more upset that she actually has it. 

Double lucky, everyone else in the house is still testing negative with no symptoms… 

 

 

[Phil Silvers]

Good luck everyone.

[Vive_La_Villa]

4 hours ago, theboyangel said:

11yr old daughter got it at school Tuesday (tested negative in the morning but positive in the evening) and confirmed with a PCR test yesterday.

Fortunately she is pretty much symptom free and feeling ok but more upset that she actually has it. 

Double lucky, everyone else in the house is still testing negative with no symptoms… 

 

 

My daughters symptom free is as well but just really bored. Off school until next Friday and then it’s half term! 

[theboyangel]

17 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

My daughters symptom free is as well but just really bored. Off school until next Friday and then it’s half term! 

Mine has seemingly lost all focus on home schooling… her mother is having none of it though