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Yeah data in inself is very misleading. You could have a pass success rate of 99.5% for instance yet they could all be made up on Westwood style shitty 3 yard passes sideways

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23 hours ago, nick76 said:

I'm happy to go with Wes to be honest, we have gone the other way in the past and look at us over the years being poor.  I agree a nice balance is key but even myself I've raved about a player or slaughtered a player but in hindsight they actually did ok.  I'm not saying Wes is right or you are right but I dont mind Wes' idea....and given his background I assume he's not stupid enough to just follow stats anyway.  What he's saying is that stats should be used more as the basis of determining the player, whereas sometimes emotion is the key driver and I point to the amount of times that clubs have brought a player post a world cup or euro's who have looked awesome in those tournaments but in club life are not up to it and become expensive failures.  You need top scouts but you also need great data

I agree.....you need both.

The tricky bit with World cups is the players form window for that competition is so small...

A player must be appraised over a period of time to ascertain their consistency.

It is he, who quoted the hard and fast rule......i just re- balanced it.

but yes, you need both.

 

Edited by TRO
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28 minutes ago, VillaJ100 said:

Yeah data in inself is very misleading. You could have a pass success rate of 99.5% for instance yet they could all be made up on Westwood style shitty 3 yard passes sideways

Or all in your own half.

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8 hours ago, screwdriver said:

This Moneyball was the transfer policy of randy lerner when he decided to stop signing the cheques for O'Neill and Houllier. It's like a bad smell we can't seem to get away from.

Villa should be spending big money to get a strong spine of top players, then blood some of the youngsters through

 

I thought moneyball signing is a player no one else would look at due to some defect that you could get cheap and would make an impact.  eg.  a 5 foot 4" centre half who wins loads of headers.

Well when was the last time or the first time this has happened in english football? erm erm erm that great centre half chris perry perhaps? other than that never.

 it's different to those bs american "sports" or games as I prefer to call them.

I think all these directors should back off. Hire a specialist to build a team. sign the checks and let the manager manage.

Thanks to edens genius ideas we have:- a) 22m striker with one leg shorter than the other, has the touch of a trampoline and couldnt score in a crack house

                                                                        2) brazillian defensive midfielder who can't defend or concentrate for 90mins. (classic moneyball who else would buy a brazillain DM??   [unless he's called dunga  ])

                                                                        b)left wing back with acceleration of glacier

                                                                       c)the less said about Mahmoud Ahmed Ibrahim Hassan the better. If I was David Trezeguet I would forbid this joker from tarnishing his great name.

These bullshit projects are ok for little clubs like brentford.  wolves bought top talent and ripped up the champ. Easily settled in the prem and now have a chance at champions league, you'll see a few young yams starting to come thru like gibbs white and terry taylor. This makes me sick to my jappa. This is what Villa should be doing.

Why woudl Villa fans really want to watch the team of  patched together from around the world raggy dolls?

Villa should be spending big money to get a strong spine of top players, then blood some of the youngsters through

I certainly have my doubts.....I also wonder how much influence Dean has got, with recruitment of players.

It seems to me, don't rock the boat is his stance.

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42 minutes ago, TRO said:

I certainly have my doubts.....I also wonder how much influence Dean has got, with recruitment of players.

It seems to me, don't rock the boat is his stance.

Same as at pretty much all clubs

He meets with suso and his team, says that he likes the look of such and such, the team watches him, they like the look of him too, suso talks to the players agent and team, deal can't be done, we move on, or the scouts watch him closely several times and spot some flaws in his game and we decide to move on 

"at Brentford I had this talented CB with loads of potential, konsa..." 

Dean's job is to lead the horse to water, susos job is to get it to drink 

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And money ball is still completely misunderstood 

Its another way to identify and bring the horse to water, it doesn't mean that we don't scout or look at anything else

Guilbert had something like the 4th highest interception rate in Europe, that's not a case of OK let's sign him, that's a case of OK let's go watch him 

They still go through the regular scouting process 

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9 hours ago, screwdriver said:

I think all these directors should back off. Hire a specialist to build a team. sign the checks and let the manager manage

That is literally what we have 

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4 hours ago, villa4europe said:

And money ball is still completely misunderstood 

Its another way to identify and bring the horse to water, it doesn't mean that we don't scout or look at anything else

Guilbert had something like the 4th highest interception rate in Europe, that's not a case of OK let's sign him, that's a case of OK let's go watch him 

They still go through the regular scouting process 

Then thats fine.

However, in the case you presented, that doesn't necessarily equate to me.

Intercepting is just one important attribute, amongst many to be a top full back.....he has some way to go IMO.

Edited by TRO

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4 hours ago, villa4europe said:

Same as at pretty much all clubs

He meets with suso and his team, says that he likes the look of such and such, the team watches him, they like the look of him too, suso talks to the players agent and team, deal can't be done, we move on, or the scouts watch him closely several times and spot some flaws in his game and we decide to move on 

"at Brentford I had this talented CB with loads of potential, konsa..." 

Dean's job is to lead the horse to water, susos job is to get it to drink 

I would have thought, its Deans job to get it to drink......but it depends in what context we mean.

 

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We just need a consistent recruitment policy that works and have  coaches that are able to have a style of play that is correct for the squad of players we have at  a particular time. 

This will help to avoid the endless changes of players and styles of play we have suffered with for years whenever we change managers.

The amount of money we have wasted in the past 10-15 years  on perfectly decent players who are shifted out of B6 as the new manager wants his own players must be astronomical. 

I like Smith and hope he stays for a while but it is naive to expect a manager to come in nowadays and to 'build' a side like Fergie or Wenger. They are never round long enough, the days of managers staying at clubs for  5-10 years is gone.  They are just hired guns, even the best rarely stay more than 3 seasons.

You need to have recruitment to be away from this and avoid the shocks of management change every 2-3 years.

Edited by The Fun Factory

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On 31/05/2020 at 12:09, villa4europe said:

And money ball is still completely misunderstood 

Its another way to identify and bring the horse to water, it doesn't mean that we don't scout or look at anything else

Guilbert had something like the 4th highest interception rate in Europe, that's not a case of OK let's sign him, that's a case of OK let's go watch him 

They still go through the regular scouting process 

I fear this fell down the pecking order as targets were missed out on. It has to have. 

I refuse to believe players like Wes, Trez and Targett can have been watched regularly and it was decided they're worth money we paid. I think multiple agents have spoken about giving Suso players (could be the same guy on different occasions) and that's where I think more moves have happened than is useful.

We're not in a terrible spot, because these owners are clearly interested, but we need a big change in this department.

The beige swindler Gregg Evans wrote about our recruitment the year we went down recently. We had a fantastic setup, picking up players like Gueye, Veretout and Amavi for under £25m, those three would cost you at least £70m now. Sadly Tim Sherwood was in charge and told the recruitment team he was going to play 3-5-2 all season (main reason they went for the attacking Amavi), plus he insisted on signing Lescott and Richards. We were always going down with that Representative for Wellingborough in charge.

I think those players would have thrived under Smith, despite his shortcomings.

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El ghazi, Trez and Jota, have been very questionable signings, all wingers.

we need to do better, than this.

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15 minutes ago, TRO said:

El ghazi, Trez and Jota, have been very questionable signings, all wingers.

we need to do better, than this.

We need to do better across the board I agree.

No problem with the signings of El Ghazi and Jota for me though.

Ghazi showed plenty in the Championship and, ability wise, he's absolutely got it all. Evidently it's not quite worked, getting through mentally is a big challenge. He can come good IMO.

Jota was arranged before the end of last season as a part exchange with Blues for Gary Gardner. Jota has been of much more use to us even with his very limited apps. Plus, if we hadn't have gone up, he'd have played a lot more.

Trez is a terrible signing of a player who is borderline uncoachable due to having zero football intelligence. A waste of money and a squad number.

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2 hours ago, TRO said:

El ghazi, Trez and Jota, have been very questionable signings, all wingers.

we need to do better, than this.

El Ghazi is wildly inconsistant but there's potential there. Was good back end of last season and has chipped in with goals this season. Hopefully next season he'll develop into a week in week out player as is very frustrating in the away games he dosen't fancy and cries off like Southampton recently. You'd think with his build and reasonable amount of pace he'd be key on the counter attack in away games but it just dosen't happen.

Trez been a disappointment but think he was overhyped anyway.

Jota just a squad signing and guess the management thought they could get the odd good performance out of him considering how well he played for them at Brentford. Was good at home to Everton but faded out of contention since. Not really a winger imo, more an inside player who I'm surprised we haven't tried out as number 10 in the cups.

Edited by VillaChris
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4 hours ago, VillaChris said:

El Ghazi is wildly inconsistant but there's potential there. Was good back end of last season and has chipped in with goals this season. Hopefully next season he'll develop into a week in week out player as is very frustrating in the away games he dosen't fancy and cries off like Southampton recently. You'd think with his build and reasonable amount of pace he'd be key on the counter attack in away games but it just dosen't happen.

Trez been a disappointment but think he was overhyped anyway.

Jota just a squad signing and guess the management thought they could get the odd good performance out of him considering how well he played for them at Brentford. Was good at home to Everton but faded out of contention since. Not really a winger imo, more an inside player who I'm surprised we haven't tried out as number 10 in the cups.

I think us as fans, our expectations of our players is very high, it’s pretty much the same at any club. We expect miracles from them, they are not superhuman, we groan when they misplace a pass. Maybe if we all got behind the team and created an intimidating atmosphere (not violent) and made Villa Park a fortress again. Where I sit, In the Trinity Road stand, there are quite a lot of elderly people and young children so I understand that we have to be respectful of them, I am interested in other poster’s views on this subject. I also understand that it is going off topic, apologies mods

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10 hours ago, sir_gary_cahill said:

I think us as fans, our expectations of our players is very high, it’s pretty much the same at any club. We expect miracles from them, they are not superhuman, we groan when they misplace a pass. Maybe if we all got behind the team and created an intimidating atmosphere (not violent) and made Villa Park a fortress again. Where I sit, In the Trinity Road stand, there are quite a lot of elderly people and young children so I understand that we have to be respectful of them, I am interested in other poster’s views on this subject. I also understand that it is going off topic, apologies mods

The atmosphere has been pretty good all year imo and miles away from the toxic air of last season of Lerner for example and we've had some terrifc noise in the evening games which players have benefited from.

I don't think it's too much to ask to have one year where we're not battling relegation in the premier league. If we stay up hopefully we'll sign 3-4 players who can lift us up to the giddy heights of 11th or 12th and with comfortable distance from 18th, it's what likes of Burnley and Palace have done after staying up. Bournemouth aswell had a few mid table seasons after surviving their first season.

It's what the owners will be expecting anyway so if they want it the fanbase should be.

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Have the scouts got their masks over their eyes?

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On 02/06/2020 at 20:03, TRO said:

El ghazi, Trez and Jota, have been very questionable signings, all wingers.

we need to do better, than this.

to be fair the wingers have probably been our biggest issue (imo).

If we had signed 2 actually good wingers, i would bet money we would be lower mid table currently, yes we need to improve other areas, but im fairly certain the wingers (or lack of good wingers), has been a large part of our problem.

El Ghazi, Trez & Jota have just not been good enough, at all.

Although, it seems Jota isnt good enough, but he is the only one of the 3 who probably hasnt had a run of games, that Everton game stuck in my mind, Jota was sublime in that game. (but granted he seems to be too slow and lightweight)

Edited by MaVilla
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I was really hoping (and kinda expected us) to fix the winger situation in January. It's just not good enough.

That and a calmer, more rounded and experienced CB would have made a huge difference IMO.

Obviously it's not as easy as to just make it happen but I hope we at least tried because those are blatant weaknesses.

Our inability to keep possession in dangerous areas as big a failing as our defending and one of the reasons why we ship so many goals. We lose the ball far to easy and are too stretched when we do so our opponents can pass through us with a pass or 2.

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The only positive thing I can say about our recruitment, and I’m really clutching at straws here, is that if we do stay up, we have some semblance of a squad to build on for next season. 

Even that’s a stretch though as I don’t think the majority of our players are good enough even to be squad players in this division. 

In reality, and if we’re all honest with ourselves, last summer was an absolute shitshow. We’ve tried to work to a model of signing quality Unknown’s from abroad in the hope they improve us and in turn, their value rises meaning anyone who wants to sign them would have to pay a premium. What we’ve actually done is sign a load of dross who we’ll struggle to get rid of because no one will want to take them off our hands and now we’re stuck with them.

To spend 140m and be no stronger than last season (arguable), is nothing short of gross negligence on the part of the recruitment team. If I was the owner of Aston Villa, I’d be furious with how this season has panned out. That’s not to say I’d be expecting a champions league finish, but I’d certainly expect to see more than I have having handed out so much money. 

If we go down, we’ll lose Mings, McGinn and Grealish. Where does that leave us? In a far, far worse position than when NSWE took over. 

 

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