Ratings & Reactions: Villa v Manchester City

[TRO]

1 hour ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

We actually did used to win stuff a long, long time ago. We've just been left behind by the likes of Man City who've thrown money around much more successfully than we have. 

 

I'm starting to think you're right that we're never going to be that team ever again though. 

I don't accept that......We said that in the 70's after years of demise...and then Ron took over, his workrate Mantra changed us, amongst other things too.

It is much harder for so many reasons, now.....but I look at Wolves, Leicester and Sheff Utd and how they have dug themselves out of the doldrums....even Liverpool went through a wobbly period.

I am absolutely convinced if you do the right things, its possible to get back....nothing is impossible.

However, In terms of Recruitment and development of players, I am still waiting to be convinced that we have learnt from the past....because I think that has been our biggest drawback.....If you buys players not much better than what you already have, its a long hard road back.

They all say when they take these jobs, this has been the case for years and it now ends.......yeah ok.

Edited January 12, 2020 by TRO

[TRO]

11 minutes ago, terrytini said:

I know it’s easier to work hard when you are 6-0 up, and I know dominating possession means they are relatively fresh, but that moment when 6 of them converged on Trézéguet after his run down the wing in the 88 th minute was sensational.

 

That body check on Grealish, which drew a foul, fine........but when did we do it?

Despite their sublime skills, they can mix it too.

[TRO]

While I marvelled at Man City, I couldn't help thinking, if the old crazy gang was playing them today, would they have been so up for their expansive game......Mahrez would probably end up in row Z

I am not condoning fouling.....but I could see Vinnie and Fash  & co taking a few scalps and a few players of man city, not want the ball quite so readily.....maybe a few more yellows flying around, but they would factor that in.

It can't be any worse than conceding 6 the way we did.

 

[VillaFaninLondon]

29 minutes ago, terrytini said:

I’d say there’s been loads. But I guess it depends what you mean.

I look at highs in terms of winning something. Of course there have been some good moments like winning the playoffs and winning 10 in a row, but I guess seeing how far we've fallen in the last decade has made those moments more noteworthy because we've generally been despicably bad for our standards in the last 10 years. Even when we've gone down in the past we've generally gone straight back up, instead we languished in the Championship for three seasons and only went up via the playoffs being the 5th best team in the division. 

 

Certainly been a lot more lows than highs anyway. Can only really think of Sunderland who's had it worse in the same time period. 

[Silent_Bob]

1 hour ago, The Fun Factory said:

would also question Dean's selection today. Chucking Drinkwater on versus a city side when he has barely played seemed foolhardy even before kick off.

In a way I can understand. Even if we had Heaton, McGinn and Wes we still would have lost. Playing him prepares him for the next games which are far more important. 

[terrytini]

9 minutes ago, TRO said:

While I marvelled at Man City, I couldn't help thinking, if the old crazy gang was playing them today, would they have been so up for their expansive game......Mahrez would probably end up in row Z

I am not condoning fouling.....but I could see Vinnie and Fash  & co taking a few scalps and a few players of man city, not want the ball quite so readily.....maybe a few more yellows flying around, but they would factor that in.

It can't be any worse than conceding 6 the way we did.

 

Indeed. We were debating at half time whether we’ve had a Straight Red Card for Foul play under Deano. No google but we came up with “no”.

Id like to what you’ve described, although to be fair the game has changed so much...and VAR for Red Cards would’ve stopped Wimbledon in their tracks...

....thing is though although I take the point, we don’t even need that “ extreme”, we only needed to repeat the first half v Burnley or the game v Leicester, to name two recent examples. 

[briny_ear]

Gor blimey, first Joleon Lescott telling us what was wrong with the way we played and now Micah Richards.

Didn't think things could get any worse today but...

Edited January 12, 2020 by briny_ear

[southcoastvillan]

Nyland 3

hause 3

konsa 2 

mings 6

taylor 2

elmo 2

hourinhane 0

luiz 1

drinkwater 2 

jack 5

el ghazi 5

i will reserve full judgement until after next weeks game because as saints and Watford have proved this season sometimes it’s possible to come back from an absolute mauling better and prove a point. My fear is that I don’t think most of our lads have it in them.

City are an absolute joy to watch, they play football how it is meant to be played, pass and move, quick accurate passes and constant movement off the ball to create angle and options, and without the ball they work quickly and as a team, shutting the opposition out with vicious pressing. 
 

but that said and as good as city Are we never once put a tackle on them, tried to rough them up and take them out of their stride, if we’re in a dog fight then I’m afraid our dog has no fight.

 

midfield is a joke right now, hourihane who looks so pissed off every time he comes on as sub because he’s been left out of the first 11 needs to watch the video of this game as to why the manager nor most fans trust him, lazy, heartless passive, disgrace - if you’d have told me he didn’t play today I’d have believed you 

[VillaFaninLondon]

12 minutes ago, TRO said:

I don't accept that......We said that in the 70's after years of demise...and then Ron took over, his workrate Mantra changed us, amongst other things too.

It is much harder for so many reasons, now.....but I look at Wolves, Leicester and Sheff Utd and how they have dug themselves out of the doldrums....even Liverpool went through a wobbly period.

I am absolutely convinced if you do the right things, its possible to get back....nothing is impossible.

However, In terms of Recruitment and development of players, I am still waiting to be convinced that we have learnt from the past....because I think that has been our biggest drawback.....If you buys players not much better than what you already have, its a long hard road back.

They all say when they take these jobs, this has been the case for years and it now ends.......yeah ok.

Of course it's possible. Wolves have shown how to do it, as have Leicester as you mentioned. I'm not convinced Sheffield will last, certainly when you look at their personnel, but they've taken to the PL much better than we have for sure and at least show the same levels of commitment and desire as their opponents at this level (unlike us). 

 

But we've been so badly run for as long as I can remember I just can't see us going the same way as those clubs. Under every owner, every manager, every set of players, we just look a basket case every time. We seem incapable of attracting any players of real calibre to the club, whereas Wolves have brought in proven quality players time and time again under Fosun. We can't even identify hidden gems on the whole, McGinn being the one exception in the last few years. And we have no distinctive way of playing, we brought in a manager who was supposed to get us playing free flowing, possession football and there's absolutely no evidence of it. 

 

It's like there's a cancer at this club and there has been for a long time. What we can't keep doing is making the same mistakes in terms of recruitment and the vision for the football club, but it seems like we always are. I just can't see us ever getting it right. 

[Villastine]

1 hour ago, Kiwivillan said:

Yeah it's so **** easy to buy quality in January. 

No it isn't f***** easy. In fact loaning players is usually the best way to get quality players in. 

Internationals not getting game time before the Euros will be pushing for a loan where game time looks limited. 

That's why wasting our 2 loans is outrageously stupid 

Edited January 12, 2020 by Villastine

[chappy]

Thought Drinkwater looked class for the first five mins... then he was responsible for their first three goals.

Really bad performance but at the same time City are an excellent side. Low point of the season for me remains Watford away, if we’re doing that kind of comparison.

Guilbert should’ve started and we're dying for a striker.

Glad I stayed til the end to see the goal I guess.

[Kiwivillan]

2 minutes ago, Villastine said:

No it isn't f***** easy. In fact loaning players is usually the best way to get quality players in. 

Internationals not getting game time before the Euros will be pushing for a loan where game time looks limited. 

That's why wasting our 2 loans is outrageously stupid 

2 loans is for players from UK teams. And good players in on loan is not easy but you seem like an expert so give me say 5 we should be approaching that would be easy to get

Edited January 12, 2020 by Kiwivillan

[TRO]

20 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

Of course it's possible. Wolves have shown how to do it, as have Leicester as you mentioned. I'm not convinced Sheffield will last, certainly when you look at their personnel, but they've taken to the PL much better than we have for sure and at least show the same levels of commitment and desire as their opponents at this level (unlike us). 

 

But we've been so badly run for as long as I can remember I just can't see us going the same way as those clubs. Under every owner, every manager, every set of players, we just look a basket case every time. We seem incapable of attracting any players of real calibre to the club, whereas Wolves have brought in proven quality players time and time again under Fosun. We can't even identify hidden gems on the whole, McGinn being the one exception in the last few years. And we have no distinctive way of playing, we brought in a manager who was supposed to get us playing free flowing, possession football and there's absolutely no evidence of it. 

 

It's like there's a cancer at this club and there has been for a long time. What we can't keep doing is making the same mistakes in terms of recruitment and the vision for the football club, but it seems like we always are. I just can't see us ever getting it right. 

Personally, I think we are obsessed with this free flowing football Mantra and everything has to be geared to it......all very fine, but its a contact sport and that has to be addressed first...."you have to win the right to play football"...Man city do, they can mix it......Fergie got Man Utd the same and Klopp is doing the same too.

I think even if Dean Smith agrees with me.....We have too many lightweight players we have assembled and he is stuck with them....its no good asking them to do stuff, they can't.

I think we have been breeding a soft underbelly mentality at the club( unintentionally), for some time ( right through all the ranks)and it will take some changing, that's if anybody at the club recognises it as an Issue.....some folk can see it, Graeme Souness can see it.

Dean needs to develop a steely streak and furthermore if the players being offered are not to his liking tell Suso and his men to stuff em, wrong character? for my team.....sign players who can grow some balls and mix it.

Dean does come across to me a bit grateful for the job, I hope I am wrong, but it worries me, some folk at the club will see it as weak.

Edited January 12, 2020 by TRO

[Vincenzo]

Most of us knew before the season started it was going to tough

Many expected a few hidings but felt it was important to stick with the manager and the team

Remember where we were this time last year

Man City are reigning Premier league champions fielding a world class team

We’ve only just got promoted, had to buy loads of new players and are very inexperienced across the board

We weren’t good today at all, there’s no glossing over that.

Today we were exposed. However, we’ve lost some key players and have only just recently changed our formation. 

This is a tough time for all of us from the manager through to the supporters, but we need to stick together 

Look how the media love report on people leaving after 30 minutes...I won’t call them supporters because they aren’t imo...

Much rather have the Villa supporters who were singing in defiance when we were 5-0 down...made me proud!

UTV

 

[stewiek2]

Seen on BBC website that our midfield four made just FOUR tackles all game. FOUR. You are going down when your midfield are so powder puff and not getting stuck in.

That is a shocking, disgusting, unacceptable statistic but even worse not surprising.

We cannot stay up when yet again our midfield is missing. It is the biggest issue we have. We can bring in strikers but when the midfield is so inept it makes not a jot who is up front. They do not protect the defence nor support the attack.

Edited January 13, 2020 by stewiek2

[The Fun Factory]

This time last  year we got tanked by Wigan away. Perspective and all that. UTV.

Edited January 13, 2020 by The Fun Factory

[Kiwivillan]

46 minutes ago, stewiek2 said:

Seen on BBC website that our midfield four made just FOUR tackles all game. FOUR.

It's not a big deal. Including wide players who don't make many tackles is a red herring. Hourihane and Drinkwater made 2 each. Man City mids made 2 total no surprise. Both teams made 15 total and Hause made 3rd of ours. Everton midfield 3 made 3 tackles against City recently. Fred and Pereira made 4 total midweek. It looks shocking unless you're a statto like me and it's just standard presented as a gotcha headline

[VillaFaninLondon]

7 hours ago, TRO said:

Personally, I think we are obsessed with this free flowing football Mantra and everything has to be geared to it......all very fine, but its a contact sport and that has to be addressed first...."you have to win the right to play football"...Man city do, they can mix it......Fergie got Man Utd the same and Klopp is doing the same too.

I think even if Dean Smith agrees with me.....We have too many lightweight players we have assembled and he is stuck with them....its no good asking them to do stuff, they can't.

I think we have been breeding a soft underbelly mentality at the club( unintentionally), for some time ( right through all the ranks)and it will take some changing, that's if anybody at the club recognises it as an Issue.....some folk can see it, Graeme Souness can see it.

Dean needs to develop a steely streak and furthermore if the players being offered are not to his liking tell Suso and his men to stuff em, wrong character? for my team.....sign players who can grow some balls and mix it.

Dean does come across to me a bit grateful for the job, I hope I am wrong, but it worries me, some folk at the club will see it as weak.

To be honest, not playing free flowing football against Man City is acceptable (though we played defensively and still lost 6-1, Christ knows what would happen if we actually had gone toe to toe with them). But Norwich facking City of all teams have shown us up in how to play football this season, it's embarrassing.

 

Let's be honest TRO, Smith is a Championship manager managing Championship players on the whole. Wolves are set up with a manager who had managed at clubs in the Champions League before joining them, and they've brought in players who have played at the very highest level. Despite our so-called riches we went for a manager mainly because he was a Villa fan and he would 'get us' and not getting our first choice which I believe was Brendan Rodgers. No proven pedigree outside of the Championship, so despite promotion being our goal there was no long-term plan because no one had any clue how Smith would manage the step up. He clearly hasn't managed it very well based on our performances this season. 

 

I'm going to try to switch off from football this season, it's depressing. I see very little difference this season to how we were run under Randy Lerner and we've suffered another pasting at home like we did that season against Liverpool (and we all know what happened after that). Unless we by some miracle bring in a couple of really top players in this window, this season is just going to end miserably and I don't want to witness that. 

[flashingqwerty]

11 hours ago, Elton said:

It clearly wasn’t tactical for us to stand off them as Smith complained about this post match. But Smith must know Hourihane rarely tackles and he dropped the player most likely to in Nakamba. Gilbert also likes a tackle but he’s dropped for Elmo. 

This was the biggest disappointment today, yes we made individual errors but there was no intensity to win the ball back, tackle, block, the basics. 

He may not have asked them to drop off, but a lack of desire to get stuck in comes from the coaching team.

Either this is happening on the training pitch and not getting corrected, or they do it in training but lack the confidence to do it in a match.

Whichever it is, both faults rest, ultimately, at DSs feet.  He sent out a team today that was never going to make or win tackles in midfield.  I don't feel DS has learned anything since we got promoted, and worse, he has regressed significantly.

I cannot see us surviving with DS at the helm.  I think a better coach could make something of the squad we have.

[danceoftheshamen]

On the way to the game yesterday me & my daughter were looking on her phone to see what the team line up was going to be. As she read out the team i have to say i was shocked to hear the line-up.

No Guibert? Our scorer in midweek.

No Targett who in all the Pre game build up back at home had been stated as fit.

Drinkwater making his debut - Which seemed odd considering his lack of game time, personally i thought he would come on later if needed especially as the team had done reasonably well at Leicester in midweek. My thinking was we had forcibly had to change the team far too often recently so a bit of stability was badly needed against a brilliant team like City.

I was quite shocked at the line up and when my daughter asked what i thought i held out a hand with all five fingers extended.." we'll lose 5-0 is my guess" i stated. "why" she asked? "Well because in my opinion he's (DS) made too many changes to an already disrupted team and that defence is shocking with Mings aside, a Championship feel about it" "Why's he playing the full backs who struggled in the Championship last season?" I asked.

So much wrong with yesterday you really don't know where to start. It was magnified by playing and bang in form team of high quality of course but that was truly dismal.