Louie Barry

[Zatman]

1 hour ago, AV82 said:

See Phil Foden for how we should be managing our youngsters.

of course it would in a perfect world but we dont have the luxury of having De Bruyne, David Silva and Aguero showing him the ropes

[AV82]

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

of course it would in a perfect world but we dont have the luxury of having De Bruyne, David Silva and Aguero showing him the ropes

I was talking in terms of introducing him slowly and being patient.

[messi11]

loan him to conference league. Needs to play mens football. FA youth cup is far below non league.

 

[flashingqwerty]

3 hours ago, mikeyp102 said:

And yet Grealish path was completely different. There isn’t a right or wrong way for each individual, as there are a lot of mitigating circumstances 

And Grealish developed mich layer and at a slower rate than Foden.

Different situation though as we do not have world class players to pick up the slack if a youngster is a little off the pace.

[gwi1890]

57 minutes ago, AV82 said:

I was talking in terms of introducing him slowly and being patient.

Like Ramsey not saying Ramsey will ever be Foden level but I see similarities in his introduction to first team football 

[sparrow1988]

16 hours ago, mikeyp102 said:

And yet Grealish path was completely different. There isn’t a right or wrong way for each individual, as there are a lot of mitigating circumstances 

I wouldn't be advocating for the club's management of Grealish as the model of how to introduce a youngster into the first team. Grealish made it because he is an outrageous talent. There will be some like Grealish that you can just throw in and say get out there and do it but the majority of youngsters need to be managed and introduced slowly.

The Grealish that we have now is mainly a result of Grealish.

The Foden that you see is mainly a result of Man City.

[blandy]

9 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said:

I wouldn't be advocating for the club's management of Grealish as the model of how to introduce a youngster into the first team. Grealish made it because he is an outrageous talent. There will be some like Grealish that you can just throw in and say get out there and do it but the majority of youngsters need to be managed and introduced slowly.

The Grealish that we have now is mainly a result of Grealish.

The Foden that you see is mainly a result of Man City.

That's a really good post, though I think it maybe slightly downplays Foden's own part in his development. They're both outstandingly talented footballers. You're right that Foden has undoubtedly benefitted from Guardiola's experience and expertise in a way that wasn't available to Jack. Guardiola has been able to manage him so well because he's worked with so many talented players, because City is full of excellent, top level players throughout their squad who will have taught Foden as much if not more than Guardiola, but Foden still had to do the learning  - no one else could do that for him. So yeah, massively better environment for him to learn in, for certain, than was the case at Villa 6 years ago. But I think basically the two players would always make it to the top because they are wonderfully talented and hard working enough that nothing would stop them.

[rodders0223]

13 hours ago, messi11 said:

loan him to conference league. Needs to play mens football. FA youth cup is far below non league.

 

Aye and he's thin as a rake. Diet of Guinness and a solid regiment of bullying and hazing for 2 years in a men's environment.

[KenjiOgiwara]

14 minutes ago, blandy said:

You're right that Foden has undoubtedly benefitted from Guardiola's experience and expertise in a way that wasn't available to Jack. Guardiola has been able to manage him so well because he's worked with so many talented players.

I know I am taking this out of context, but I feel people are overestimating how much effect the manager has on a young player's development. I don't think the manager has much influence at all. 

I'm sure some coaches might have. But in most cases I think young players develop from playing with good players, getting lots of first team football and their own attitude and application.

[blandy]

9 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

I know I am taking this out of context, but I feel people are overestimating how much effect the manager has on a young player's development. I don't think the manager has much influence at all. 

I'm sure some coaches might have. But in most cases I think young players develop from playing with good players, getting lots of first team football and their own attitude and application.

Yeah, that's fair, and along the same lines as what I said - "City is full of excellent, top level players throughout their squad who will have taught Foden as much if not more than Guardiola"

But where I think the difference is with (say) Guardiola compared to (say) Steve Bruce is the tactical awareness that he can teach, and the experience he was from his other jobs with young, really talented players - Barcelone being the main asset, in that he went through their whole system, from Junior to manager so he saw and learnt and can now teach things that to be blunt (say) Steve Bruce can't. Of course it's not just Guardiola or whoever is Villa manager - it's all the coaches and back up staff and nutritionists and physios and so on. Another thing Guardiola has done really well is put Foden in for a gem, take him out again - gradually allow him to get to the point where he's a full first team pick. Basically with jack, he was left out, then pretty much a permanent starter all of a sudden to the extent that we depended on him completely  - a burden he's coped with brilliantly, but many young players find that kind of thing a bit too much to deal with.

[sparrow1988]

11 minutes ago, blandy said:

That's a really good post, though I think it maybe slightly downplays Foden's own part in his development. They're both outstandingly talented footballers. You're right that Foden has undoubtedly benefitted from Guardiola's experience and expertise in a way that wasn't available to Jack. Guardiola has been able to manage him so well because he's worked with so many talented players, because City is full of excellent, top level players throughout their squad who will have taught Foden as much if not more than Guardiola, but Foden still had to do the learning  - no one else could do that for him. So yeah, massively better environment for him to learn in, for certain, than was the case at Villa 6 years ago. But I think basically the two players would always make it to the top because they are wonderfully talented and hard working enough that nothing would stop them.

It massively downplays Foden's part to be fair. There have been players that have come through at the same time as him at City that are not a patch on him but everything he does is City - the passing, the movement, when he shoots, when he passes. The individual brilliance is down to him but the way he plays is purely down to City. The way that Grealish plays is more "I've made a fool of about 1000 people that have tried to get the ball off of me in the last 20 years watch me do it again" although he also more than just dribbling. He is ultra aware of the other players and where they are also and who is best placed.

All Foden's goals and assists look very similar because of how well drilled City are. They score the exact same goal 90% of the time. Grealish's have been more one-off's, off the cuff pieces of skill, although we as a team have been developing more noticable patterns over the last season and a half or so. There was a time I think after we had just been promoted where nearly all of the goals Grealish had scored were worldies. I also think Foden would have made it by hook or by crook had he been in Grealish's situation 6 years ago as he is also amazingly talented. It's just the structure and way that he plays now wouldn't be there.

[sparrow1988]

18 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

I know I am taking this out of context, but I feel people are overestimating how much effect the manager has on a young player's development. I don't think the manager has much influence at all. 

I'm sure some coaches might have. But in most cases I think young players develop from playing with good players, getting lots of first team football and their own attitude and application.

Guardiola is a coach though. He does a lot of the coaching himself and with Foden knocking around the first team setup for the last few years I think it is fair to say that Guardiola will have had a fairly significant influence on him.

2 minutes ago, blandy said:

Yeah, that's fair, and along the same lines as what I said - "City is full of excellent, top level players throughout their squad who will have taught Foden as much if not more than Guardiola"

But where I think the difference is with (say) Guardiola compared to (say) Steve Bruce is the tactical awareness that he can teach, and the experience he was from his other jobs with young, really talented players - Barcelone being the main asset, in that he went through their whole system, from Junior to manager so he saw and learnt and can now teach things that to be blunt (say) Steve Bruce can't. Of course it's not just Guardiola or whoever is Villa manager - it's all the coaches and back up staff and nutritionists and physios and so on. Another thing Guardiola has done really well is put Foden in for a gem, take him out again - gradually allow him to get to the point where he's a full first team pick. Basically with jack, he was left out, then pretty much a permanent starter all of a sudden to the extent that we depended on him completely  - a burden he's coped with brilliantly, but many young players find that kind of thing a bit too much to deal with.

Also the setup at City was put together with Guardiola's Barcelona team in mind and in an attempt to replicate that. The whole set up is geared towards producing players that play football the way that Guardiola wants to play so that they fit seemlessly into the first team when they are ready. So even if he doesn't do the coaching himself, his style of football has an indirect influence on the players that the club produces as the youth teams are taught to play that way and the coaches employed at youth level share his ideas of how to play football.

[mikeyp102]

2 hours ago, sparrow1988 said:

I wouldn't be advocating for the club's management of Grealish as the model of how to introduce a youngster into the first team. Grealish made it because he is an outrageous talent. There will be some like Grealish that you can just throw in and say get out there and do it but the majority of youngsters need to be managed and introduced slowly.

The Grealish that we have now is mainly a result of Grealish.

The Foden that you see is mainly a result of Man City.

I agree, but what I’m saying is that Foden isn’t the only template that should be followed integrating youth players to the first team. They all develop differently, plus it depends who is in the first team to help them. Some need those loans out. Some need to playing youth football longer, some can be brought through at a young age.

[MrSmirch]

15 hours ago, messi11 said:

loan him to conference league. Needs to play mens football. FA youth cup is far below non league.

 

Far below non league? Did your high ranking source at the club tell you that?

[OutByEaster?]

Every youngster is different and needs different things to break through.

I think we've got people in place who will make sure he gets the opportunity.

 

[Dave-R]

He doesn't need a loan out anyway, he needs to be playing some minutes around the first team now.

[KentVillan]

Anyone criticising how we manage our youth players isn't paying attention

[nepal_villan]

4 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

Anyone criticising how we manage our youth players isn't paying attention

Indeed. We've brought in an army of staff just for this purpose.

[DCJonah]

3 hours ago, KentVillan said:

Anyone criticising how we manage our youth players isn't paying attention

Absolutely.

Just trust the process.

[Lichfield Dean]

Thought he was brilliant again tonight. Didn't score but was instrumental in all our attacks and Liverpool just could not deal with him.

I really can't wait until he's getting first team time.