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Tom13

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While it might "build character" and "toughen them up a bit" to send them out on loan to some  club in league 1, 2 or Scotland to get kicked to pieces by troglodytes I really don't see the benefit unless those clubs also has better coaching and player development skills than we do.

 I strongly doubt that it was that season at Notts County that made Grealsih what he is today and while we've generally been abysmal at integrating youth players into the first team squad I feel we finally have both a youth set up and a coaching set up that can made this happen on a regular basis. So maybe our young players might actually benefit more by staying here for the time being. Anyone think that Pep loaning out Phil Foden to league 1 would have improved him more than staying with City did? Yes I know we are not City and Barry is not Foden.

And if we do want to loan them out I much rather send them to Holland or Belgium where they actually try and play football rather than Grimsby, Dundee or whatever.

AS for Barry he will never be a 6ft 4 physical monster who uses brute force to score goals and learning to dodge opponents who tries to snap his legs is a less useful skill these days as refs don't allow that type of defending in the PL or Europe anymore. He's much better off being somewhere where he can develop his footballing skills and that won't be on some lopsided and bumpy pitch out in the fields.

Edited by sne
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I think the other thing about not loaning him is with grealish we brought through grealish and Grealish alone, this youth set up at the moment personally I'd be disappointed if we didn't bring through somewhere between 3 and 5 of them

Keep them as a unit in our set up, don't send Barry to grimsby, carney to Plymouth and Kesler to Colchester 

Keep those 3 in the same team for 3 years and then see them break through, then say to chisene and swinkels your mates are doing this and watch their game raise slightly with it, they'll drag each other up, I think you can lose that if we spread them out on loans 

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If they're not yet ready for our first team, then sending our youngsters out on loan at the right time and right age to the lower leagues is far more beneficial to their development than them just playing for our U23s and just coasting along and not really developing, playing in league one or league two is a much much bigger challenge and will by far better prepare them for our first team, have to remember that our U23s don't even play in the top division at that level.

All that said I don't think any of them need to go on loan at the moment, most of them are still only seventeen, and this is their first season at U23 level, when our U18s played Reading on Friday and included half the U23 team I'm pretty sure that the average age of the U18 team actually went down, which shows how young our U23 team is.

Only exception is Philogene-Bidace who's a bit older, and a few league clubs have apparently been asking about him, wouldn't surprise me to see him go somewhere next month, and maybe Kesler as well, as he's eighteen also and I think we will be wanting to see how he copes with competitive football as soon as possible.

And then possibley a few of the olders as well like Bridge, Revan, Callum Rowe, and Wright.

Barry's in that strange position where it's probably not the right time for a loan move in terms of his age, but if Watkins was to get injured and Davis remains unavailable then he'd probably be under serious consideration for a place in our first team squad.

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On 12/12/2020 at 08:19, sne said:

While it might "build character" and "toughen them up a bit" to send them out on loan to some  club in league 1, 2 or Scotland to get kicked to pieces by troglodytes I really don't see the benefit unless those clubs also has better coaching and player development skills than we do.

 I strongly doubt that it was that season at Notts County that made Grealsih what he is today and while we've generally been abysmal at integrating youth players into the first team squad I feel we finally have both a youth set up and a coaching set up that can made this happen on a regular basis. So maybe our young players might actually benefit more by staying here for the time being. Anyone think that Pep loaning out Phil Foden to league 1 would have improved him more than staying with City did? Yes I know we are not City and Barry is not Foden.

And if we do want to loan them out I much rather send them to Holland or Belgium where they actually try and play football rather than Grimsby, Dundee or whatever.

AS for Barry he will never be a 6ft 4 physical monster who uses brute force to score goals and learning to dodge opponents who tries to snap his legs is a less useful skill these days as refs don't allow that type of defending in the PL or Europe anymore. He's much better off being somewhere where he can develop his footballing skills and that won't be on some lopsided and bumpy pitch out in the fields.

I am not claiming I am right about loans being important  even if I think so.

But for me a loan like Grealish did to NC isn't just about getting kicked around and toughened up. It's about playing competitive football and developing mentally.

Being sent out on loan away from their recaro seats, heated baths and perfect facilities where everyone caters their needs is the closest experience these lads get to joining the military at 19. Now I know that analogy probably fails in England cause you don't have conscription, but I hope you get the point. A loan is just as much a mental growing up experience as it's about getting better at the technical footy stuff. And you need both.

Edited by KenjiOgiwara
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1 hour ago, useless said:

If they're not yet ready for our first team, then sending our youngsters out on loan at the right time and right age to the lower leagues is far more beneficial to their development than them just playing for our U23s and just coasting along and not really developing, playing in league one or league two is a much much bigger challenge and will by far better prepare them for our first team, have to remember that our U23s don't even play in the top division at that level.

All that said I don't think any of them need to go on loan at the moment, most of them are still only seventeen, and this is their first season at U23 level, when our U18s played Reading on Friday and included half the U23 team I'm pretty sure that the average age of the U18 team actually went down, which shows how young our U23 team is.

Only exception is Philogene-Bidace who's a bit older, and a few league clubs have apparently been asking about him, wouldn't surprise me to see him go somewhere next month, and maybe Kesler as well, as he's eighteen also and I think we will be wanting to see how he copes with competitive football as soon as possible.

And then possibley a few of the olders as well like Bridge, Revan, Callum Rowe, and Wright.

Barry's in that strange position where it's probably not the right time for a loan move in terms of his age, but if Watkins was to get injured and Davis remains unavailable then he'd probably be under serious consideration for a place in our first team squad.

Agree with almost all of this post. Kesler is 17 according to transfermarkt though?

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I'm not one hundred percent sure but I don't think that's accurate, was his birthday quite recently as he put it on his instagram, and I'm sure he said he'd turned 18.

Edit: Found the post and he turned 18 seven weeks ago.

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2 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

I am not claiming I am right about loans being important  even if I think so.

But for me a loan like Grealish did to NC isn't just about getting kicked around and toughened up. It's about playing competitive football and developing mentally.

Being sent out on loan away from their recaro seats, heated baths and perfect facilities where everyone caters their needs is the closest experience these lads get to joining the military at 19. Now I know that analogy probably fails in England cause you don't have conscription, but I hope you get the point. A loan is just as much a mental growing up experience as it's about getting better at the technical footy stuff. And you need both.

Yeah, agree about a lot of that but for me with this current crop I rather they stay here for the time being. Think they'll learn more by staying here than going out on loan. But as always that will differ from player to player. I just see more positives here than I do with sending them out. And when it comes to Louie Barry even more so since he had a less than ideal experience at Barcelona when he moved there so he might flourish more if he gets a bit of security and the attention from coaches that he should. Or not, I don't know him  :D 

I don't know what going on behind closed doors at Villa either but with our new owners and set up I like to believe that we for once have a plan with the young players and that we also have a coach set up that has moved away from the bullying we apparently had before. And while Grealish turned out great on the pitch for all I know he might have picked up some of his fondness for extracurricular activities while at Notts C. More likely he already had guys at Villa to learn this from but I guess we'll have to wait for his biography in 20-30 years or so.

 

Edited by sne
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I think Barry's development is going just about perfectly - he's playing regularly for the U23's and has good players around him in the youth set ups. He's getting every chance to make something of himself. For what it's worth, I think we're pacing him brilliantly.

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
2 hours ago, Kbdrum88 said:

I'm actually really excited to see this boy tonight, know its a nothing game cos Liverpool reserve will prob walk it, but still he could give Dean something to think about going forward 

I would have thought Davis would play unless he has Covid

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2 minutes ago, paul514 said:

I would have thought Davis would play unless he has Covid

Davis cant, he's part of the senior squad, the senior squad is isolating.

I also guess that means Ramsey isnt available, or possibly even Kessler, i thought Kessler trained with the first team?, dunno.

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2 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

Davis cant, he's part of the senior squad, the senior squad is isolating.

I also guess that means Ramsey isnt available, or possibly even Kessler, i thought Kessler trained with the first team?, dunno.

So keine Kessler then?

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1 hour ago, paul514 said:

I would have thought Davis would play unless he has Covid

It was announced earlier today that the whole first team bubble (including the better u23s that train with them) will not be involved tonight

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Looking at the squad that's been posted in the pre match thread there's no Philogene-Bidace, if that's right then I think Barry will play on the left with Bradley Young as the main striker, and probably Tyreik Wright on the right.

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