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4 minutes ago, darrenm said:

I don't see any distinction between animals and humans, physiologically speaking. We're all made of the same stuff but we've got the biggest brains and have managed to become top of the food chain and planet wreckers due to being tools

Ever seen a fish, or a mosquito? They’re not like us and aren’t made of the same stuff. Whales n’that have bigger brains. The last bit, though, yeah*

 

*I may have misquoted a bit. Sox.

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14 minutes ago, darrenm said:

How unpopular of an opinion can I get away with?

Here goes.

I don't see any distinction between animals and humans, physiologically speaking. We're all made of the same stuff but we've got the biggest brains and have managed to become top of the food chain and planet wreckers due to being able to make and use tools. So mammals such as sheep, pigs, dogs and cows are the same as us but have lower intelligence and haven't evolved thumbs so can't easily make and use tools.

Therefore, if killing a cow which has a human comparable mental age of about 4 years old and feels fear, emotion, pain, etc is OK, why is it that OK but killing a human is very much murder?

Why do people bond so much with dogs while tucking into their beefburger? Why do people go so mad about puppy farms while drinking milk from cow farms where the exact same things and worse happen?

I know, it's always happened and it's always how we've done it etc but there's huge amounts of double standards everywhere. I ate meat for 40 years so I was also involved in this but I've never tried to find weak excuses to justify it and always accepted I was a hypocrite.

You sound like my vegan mate. 

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7 minutes ago, darrenm said:

How unpopular of an opinion can I get away with?

Here goes.

I don't see any distinction between animals and humans, physiologically speaking. We're all made of the same stuff but we've got the biggest brains and have managed to become top of the food chain and planet wreckers due to being able to make and use tools. So mammals such as sheep, pigs, dogs and cows are the same as us but have lower intelligence and haven't evolved thumbs so can't easily make and use tools.

Therefore, if killing a cow which has a human comparable mental age of about 4 years old and feels fear, emotion, pain, etc is OK, why is it that OK but killing a human is very much murder?

Why do people bond so much with dogs while tucking into their beefburger? Why do people go so mad about puppy farms while drinking milk from cow farms where the exact same things and worse happen?

I know, it's always happened and it's always how we've done it etc but there's huge amounts of double standards everywhere. I ate meat for 40 years so I was also involved in this but I've never tried to find weak excuses to justify it and always accepted I was a hypocrite.

Someone tried to get me to sign a petition once, because they ate dogs in Korea. Not absolutely sure what the petition was hoping to do about it. Anyway, I refused  as to me it was no different to eating pigs or turkeys. Person with the petition couldn’t believe I couldn’t see the difference.

Last night there was some programme expose on the TV, turns out and its a complete shock, race horses that don’t make the grade, or that get injured, they’re given a free trip to the abattoir. Shocking, I’d always presumed they went to live in a meadow in Somerset and be friends with a slightly bossy goat.

How small an animal would you grant parity? Would a mouse qualify? What about non mammals? You can make friends with a Magpie, so should we give the intelligent birds some sort of parity? Or squid?

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1 hour ago, blandy said:

Ever seen a fish, or a mosquito? They’re not like us and aren’t made of the same stuff. Whales n’that have bigger brains. The last bit, though, yeah*

 

*I may have misquoted a bit. Sox.

Just don't misquote a mosquito. 

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Honest answer... I don't care...It sounds callous but I dont, there's a lot of stuff that I can shut out, animal welfare is one of them, general world goings on is another 

There's no happiness to be gained from becoming conscious of the worlds problems, focus on my own and those of the people around me 

 

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33 minutes ago, bickster said:

What is it with these non-secaturs today, first it was Socialist Utopia and now Vegan Mate.... :trollface:

It's certainly a case of cognitive dissonance. This guy is an old friend that I haven't seen in the flesh for over thirty years, as he now lives in the north of Scotland, and we only communicate via social media. Which, given his newfound evangelical veganism, is perhaps just as well. 

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2 hours ago, blandy said:

Ever seen a fish, or a mosquito? They’re not like us and aren’t made of the same stuff. Whales n’that have bigger brains. The last bit, though, yeah*

 

*I may have misquoted a bit. Sox.

I think it depends on the ability to feel emotional pain. Things without a central nervous system like insects don't really count. So fish, no. Mosquitoes, kill with fire.

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35 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Honest answer... I don't care...It sounds callous but I dont, there's a lot of stuff that I can shut out, animal welfare is one of them, general world goings on is another 

There's no happiness to be gained from becoming conscious of the worlds problems, focus on my own and those of the people around me 

 

I do care about animal welfare... but I don't do anything about it and I eat meat. Hypocrite really.

As for the wider world problems - agree, don't concern myself with it.

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2 hours ago, Rugeley Villa said:

Jesus died on the cross for mankind’s sins. Carry on sinning people . 

The funny thing is the original sin was thinking in terms of good and evil. Christians got hold of the Bible and don't realize thinking in terms of sin is the sin.

Go figure.

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One of my veggie friends (who eats fish so is a pesky tarian and said the other day fancied a bit of chicken so now eats chicken sometimes too) said I had to try oysters when out at a meal.

I said I couldn't because I'm veggie and don't eat fish. She said they're not living and are fine for veggies to eat. I didn't believe this but it does seem that bi-valves are basically a plant. No brain, no CNS, no pain receptors, just a collection of cells that filter water:

Quote

Gauthier takes an “eat nothing with a face” approach to veganism. “For me, a vegan diet is fundamentally about compassion,” he explains, “and, as current research confirms, oysters are non-sentient beings with no brain or advanced central nervous system, so they’re unable to feel pain. That’s why I’m happy to eat them.”
..
“but there is a case for saying they’re less sentient even than trees. Unlike most farming, oysters have a demonstrably beneficial impact on the environment around them, too – they filter and purify the water, which in turn encourages secondary ecosystems.”

from https://www.theguardian.com/food/2019/sep/27/are-oysters-vegan-kitchen-aide

I didn't eat any though because they look **** rank. You're basically eating an arsehole.

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13 minutes ago, darrenm said:

One of my veggie friends (who eats fish so is a pesky tarian and said the other day fancied a bit of chicken so now eats chicken sometimes too) said I had to try oysters when out at a meal.

I said I couldn't because I'm veggie and don't eat fish. She said they're not living and are fine for veggies to eat. I didn't believe this but it does seem that bi-valves are basically a plant. No brain, no CNS, no pain receptors, just a collection of cells that filter water:

from https://www.theguardian.com/food/2019/sep/27/are-oysters-vegan-kitchen-aide

I didn't eat any though because they look **** rank. You're basically eating an arsehole.

They are fantastic but I would have thought they would be off the menu for a veggie. 

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