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Ratings & Reactions: Villa v Liverpool


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166 members have voted

  1. 1. Who was your Man of the Match?

  2. 2. Manager's Performance

  3. 3. Refereeing Performance


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  • Poll closed on 05/11/19 at 23:59

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Villa need to learn how to close out games. That should come with more experience playing in what is a brutal Premier League. Switch off for a moment and you end up conceding. Villa have been terribly naive in that respect.

Its not just the players either. Dean Smith needs to be a bit more tactically astute in the last 10-15 minutes. Charlie Nic on Sky suggested pushing McGinn back ten yards to give the defence more protection and I would have to agree with that.

As he further suggested it’s just not about changing personnel but getting the players on the pitch to adjust better to fill out gaps that may appear in latter part of games.

Dropping points from winning positions can’t continue for much longer or Villa will find themselves with a mountain to climb by the time January comes around.

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9 minutes ago, striker said:

Villa need to learn how to close out games. That should come with more experience playing in what is a brutal Premier League. Switch off for a moment and you end up conceding. Villa have been terribly naive in that respect.

Its not just the players either. Dean Smith needs to be a bit more tactically astute in the last 10-15 minutes. Charlie Nic on Sky suggested pushing McGinn back ten yards to give the defence more protection and I would have to agree with that.

As he further suggested it’s just not about changing personnel but getting the players on the pitch to adjust better to fill out gaps that may appear in latter part of games.

Dropping points from winning positions can’t continue for much longer or Villa will find themselves with a mountain to climb by the time January comes around.

and someone should go on the far post at corners

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Had someone told me before the game that we'd lose 2-1 I'd say "ok". Hate losing but as much as it pains me to admit it, liverscouse are among the best teams in the world right now, so only losing 2-1 and scoring a goal would still be better than what I feared. But not like this. Never like this.

A couple of questions to the ref: Where did he find 5 minutes? I won't blame the ref that much, but I got the impression that he'd play on untill they scored. I know that the ref can bring back a freekick if advantage isn't had, but they got a chance to score and failed. Shouldn't that be enough? Is he really to give them the freekick he gave away for advantage?

Anyway, I think we fought well and deserved a point. But they deserved to win too, and unfortunately you can't get a point if you lose, even though you might deserve it. This game just sucked, but we were good and the performance yet again told me that we won't go down. Not if we keep on like this. There are easily 3 worse teams than us.

Some see a misstake for their first goal, I see a perfect cross from Mané. Sure, he shouldn't be allowed to be so free on the far post, but in the 87th minute those things happens. We'd been chasing the ball all 2nd half and ran our socks off and were just tired.

Have a man on the last post on a corner? That's down to philosophy. I think you should, but some asks why marking a post that won't move. Better have the players out in the area to get the ball before they do. It punished us this time, but it's hard to say how many times it's saved us.

The one minor criticism I have to DS is why he didn't sub Trez who was completely knackered. He'd fought well all afternoon and layed the full game against wolves on wednesday and could hardly stand up, the poor fellow. But who to bring on instead? I'd prefer a fresh Lansbury who could've gone in and just fought for the last minutes. Hourihane instead of Luiz wasn't that strange and Guilbert had a knock. Elmo isn't that bad either. We didn't lose the game on that sub.

Should Hourihane had taken the shot himself on his chance? Maybe, but their keeper was well on his feet and out quickly to cover the angles. There were any space at all to put the ball. But in the end I'd prefer a shot. If nothing else he could've got us a corner and some time to breathe. But that's very easy for me to say when I sit (sort of) calm with a beer in front of the screen. In the end their keeper did a good job there making it hard for him. And there was another time when it looked like Trez would get free on goal when their keeper was quick and got the ball long before he did.

In the end disappointed by the result as it came, but proud and encouraged by the players efforts and fighting spirit. I think we'll survive, even if not by much.

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No surprises but the plastic scousers in my Devon office have been giving it large this morning.

sad thing is, I’ve seen Liverpool play live and been to Anfield more times than them combined. 

does that shame them? Does it buggery :( 

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On 02/11/2019 at 17:06, Enda said:

Fresh legs.

Would have personally brought off Trez for Hourihane as he was clearly exhausted, but fresh legs made sense.

Fresh legs make sense of course.  But Hourihane is not the player that you bring on when you are being forced backwards and under pressure!  Unless, as stated above, he is an "extra" body in midfield.

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On 02/11/2019 at 23:04, VillaFaninLondon said:

I'm as frustrated as anyone that we've lost 6 in 11 and can't seem to hold on to leads, but I'll back him this season as long as we stay up. So I guess yes. I'm probably also a bit biased as DS is Villa through and through and I know he's desperate to get the club in a good position and be the man to make that happen. 

 

Like you though, I want to see this club competing against the best. I look at Leicester and feel ****ed off that isn't us, but we've been overtaken in the last 10 years by smaller clubs who've shown more ambition than us while we've been badly mismanaged.

 

But there does seem to be a plan in place with the current owners and I think DS may make a great manager in this league once he learns from his shortcomings, I can't say that for sure but I think we need to give him a season at least to see how he adapts. Unless we look in serious relegation trouble as the season goes on he should be backed imo. He'll need to make sure he's picking up points against the bottom half teams as that is what will define our season. The dropped points against Burnley, Bournemouth, Palace were probably more where DS deserved criticism than today I think, as those were games we should have got a couple of wins from.

It isn't about the result or the opponent for me.  We've lost 6 in 11, but in 4 of those defeats at least, the defeat was a result of poor in game management.

I'm not saying different decisions would have prevented us losing today, as Liverpool are a great team right now, but when you are not having a lot of possession and need high work rate to keep yourselves in the game, Hourihane and Kodjia are not the players you turn to.  DS turned to them to stick to the dogma of like-for-like subs.  When putting Konsa on was perhaps a wiser decision.  A strong breeze would knock Hourihane off the ball, and i've dead relatives that work harder than kodjia.  I just dont understand it at all, especially why he cant see those flaws in respect to the game.

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22 hours ago, PieFacE said:

Dude, our bench is one of a club in the Championship, the quality will inevitably drop when they come onto the pitch. But what other choice do we have? We aren't blessed with options, we're in a building process. Smith has a way of playing, and I **** love it. When the players from our bench are of a higher standard, we'll start seeing better results. 

Quality has nothing to do with my point.  He made changes to suit the tactics rather than changing the tactics to suit the game.

Lansbury is much stronger and works harder than Hourihane, and in my opinion was a better option.  Hourihane is overall a better player in my opinion, but only in possession.

I didnt think Wesley needed to come off, other players looked much more tired than he did, and in far more important positions.  I believe we'd have been better served Leaving him on and taking off el ghazi who was exhausted.  Kodjia offers nothing.  Sticking konsa up front (im not saying we should have done this) would have had a more positive impact because konsa works hard.

A better quality bench and the subs make sense, but he needs to adapt to what he has gone in the interim if we are to survive, and he isnt.

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On 02/11/2019 at 19:16, VillaJ100 said:

When you keep losing in the second half from being in a winning position it is bound to affect you. As TRO said above, we could see it coming. Even if pool we're playing shit we've got a reputation for this sort of thing. We've already dropped a frightening amount of points from winning positions. It creates a mental affect. I know if I was an opposing manager would know being 1 or 2 down with 30 to go you've still got a great chance at a result as villa get tired/lose concentration/are bottlers etc. Fair enough it was against Liverpool but we're not exactly looking dominant against the also rans either aside from Norwich, who managed to beat City. 

The way other teams are picking up points means every one will be incredibly valuable. I'd rather not look back at this and think FFS couldn't we have just shut up shop. 

I don't want Dean to change his style that much....its exciting and encouraging.

putting a player on the back post for corners, is organisation and prudence...Hardly rocket science....this really is basic stuff.

in addition

Personally, i find it bizarre that we don't have a player near the half way line, when the opposition have a corner or free kick.....its massive outlet ball and opportunity to turn defence in to attack.....surely missing one player in a line up won't make that much difference......Gabby used to stay upfield, but now we don't do it.

 

Edited by TRO
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10 hours ago, Pelle said:

Had someone told me before the game that we'd lose 2-1 I'd say "ok". Hate losing but as much as it pains me to admit it, liverscouse are among the best teams in the world right now, so only losing 2-1 and scoring a goal would still be better than what I feared. But not like this. Never like this.

A couple of questions to the ref: Where did he find 5 minutes? I won't blame the ref that much, but I got the impression that he'd play on untill they scored. I know that the ref can bring back a freekick if advantage isn't had, but they got a chance to score and failed. Shouldn't that be enough? Is he really to give them the freekick he gave away for advantage?

Anyway, I think we fought well and deserved a point. But they deserved to win too, and unfortunately you can't get a point if you lose, even though you might deserve it. This game just sucked, but we were good and the performance yet again told me that we won't go down. Not if we keep on like this. There are easily 3 worse teams than us.

Some see a misstake for their first goal, I see a perfect cross from Mané. Sure, he shouldn't be allowed to be so free on the far post, but in the 87th minute those things happens. We'd been chasing the ball all 2nd half and ran our socks off and were just tired.

Have a man on the last post on a corner? That's down to philosophy. I think you should, but some asks why marking a post that won't move. Better have the players out in the area to get the ball before they do. It punished us this time, but it's hard to say how many times it's saved us.

The one minor criticism I have to DS is why he didn't sub Trez who was completely knackered. He'd fought well all afternoon and layed the full game against wolves on wednesday and could hardly stand up, the poor fellow. But who to bring on instead? I'd prefer a fresh Lansbury who could've gone in and just fought for the last minutes. Hourihane instead of Luiz wasn't that strange and Guilbert had a knock. Elmo isn't that bad either. We didn't lose the game on that sub.

Should Hourihane had taken the shot himself on his chance? Maybe, but their keeper was well on his feet and out quickly to cover the angles. There were any space at all to put the ball. But in the end I'd prefer a shot. If nothing else he could've got us a corner and some time to breathe. But that's very easy for me to say when I sit (sort of) calm with a beer in front of the screen. In the end their keeper did a good job there making it hard for him. And there was another time when it looked like Trez would get free on goal when their keeper was quick and got the ball long before he did.

In the end disappointed by the result as it came, but proud and encouraged by the players efforts and fighting spirit. I think we'll survive, even if not by much.

Good post and well balanced in my view.

i think their goal keeper is amazing, so no complaints about Conor on that....I think Wes should have been quicker to anticipate, but there again Virgil is amongst the worlds best too.

For me, the error is the back post on both counts.....it looked Vulnerable there all afternoon and looked Vulnerable against lesser teams too.

many moons ago

Alan Wright, despite, his diminutive stature, was glued to that post during his time with us and saved many a goal in his endeavours.....its not a question of marking the post itself, its question of marking the area adjacent to it where top players target to get their purchase....they sniff out these weaknesses and capitalise.....and washes away all our great work carried out during the game.

its not a question of asking for the impossible, its more a case of being prudent and denying very good teams an easy route back in to a game.

Futher more....I feel we should be able as experiened supporters , be able to debate our possible shortfalls and still be able to applaud the team for their other work, without being accused of being ungrateful for the progress so far.

In the main, no has criticised what was a fine spirited performance.....even, many Liverpool fans were impressed with us.

I say, take a bow Dean.....now tighten up on some finer points that are easily doable.

Edited by TRO
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21 hours ago, blandy said:

The thing with this post is there's a small element of truth in it, but that's all, from my perspective.

You see if he'd have done what you're saying with your hindsight, and put Konsa on in stead of Kodjia, then we'd have had no one up front at all and invited liverpool onto us even more. If he'd put Konsa, a central defender, to play midfield then he'd have been out of his depth. If he'd changed to 5 at the back, a system we've not played at all, then confusion reigns. SO if you or I is to accuse the manager of "poor game management" (which is our right to do) then maybe acknowledging that the other options available to him were flawed too and may have led to the same or worse as you do when you say "I'm not saying different decisions would have prevented us losing today" is kind of a bit out of place. If whatever he did was likely to end in defeat, then it's not "poor management" is just "he didn't do what I'd have rather done". I mean, me, I'd have left Wes on, and Douglas Luiz - but maybe the bench knew better than I did about their level of exhaustion. I hope they did. Hourihane coming on - at least, I thought if we get a free kick outside the box we've a threat there and might get a second. Elmo did well for Guilbert.

So no, not "poor game management" just any option carries risks and against a team with Liverpool's belief and record and stronger bench I doubt there's anything different that could have affected the result, other than a fluke of some sort.

I am with you pete.....and agree, flashingqwerty does make points worthy of consideration.

I can't begin to tell you, the enjoyment Dean's Villa gives me....but we are open and vulnerable at times and on that note i am going to move away from a great team like Liverpool or Man City.

I ask you to consider Sheff Utd.....Their play is not so vulnerable as ours and in my opinion, do not possess such good individual players as ours.

What they do better than us is pass and move and on the move so much, much in the stle of Leicester.....they also close down with the industry of a bumble bee.They do have more players with an appetite for the physical challenge, where we have a few.

Man City and Liverpool was never going to define our season, but we need to look at some of the vulnerabilities in the lesser games.....this feature of our game is sadly not confined to the above teams, probably no observations if it was just them.

We do have much to learn and some of us are just trying to bring it to light.

Edited by TRO
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22 hours ago, KMitch said:

EXACTLY...  I see the same criticism of Smith every game we lose -- "His subs were poor" -- No, the quality of players on the bench is dreadful.  The only position we actually have some quality/depth at is Central Midfield, meanwhile we don't even have players good enough to be playing week in and week out as our wingers/wide forwards, which is why Grealish is being forced out wide.  We don't have anyone on the bench who can make an impact when we need a threat.

There are very few clubs who can keep quality players happy on the bench....they are not dreadful, but yes, some are not good enough.

I think he brought Kodjia on to try and stretch them....but wasn't to be......decent intention though.

I think we are where we are in the league for a reason.....we just maybe need to look for it and be honest with ourselves.

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Refrained from commenting Saturday night, as a) I had consumer a fair few beers and b) I was bitterly disappointed with the result

Looking back on it today and after watching the highlights from the game I'm immensely proud of the team. To have gone toe to toe with the European Champions for 87 minutes without our best player was really something. We matched them for large periods of the game, should have been more clinical at times to extend our lead and defended magnificently at everything they threw our way. There's no shame in losing a game after undergoing such relentless pressure during the second half.

If we can play with that much grit and determination for the rest of the season, combined with Jack returning to the side then we have nothing to worry about. This is a young team who will learn from games as they go, players who will get better and better. Yesterday will have been a lesson for all of them, the good and the bad.

 

Positives

Marvelous was marvellous

Trezeguet is now showing glimses of what he can do

Defensively we were very good for the most part, Heaton is like a brick wall

We look as though we have moved away from being a one man team, with players able to cover for Grealish's absence

 

Negatives

The substitutions hindered us, however fresh legs were needed at that stage. The changes Smith made were the changes I called for myself so I have no complaints. In highsight an extra centre back would have helped, however the pressure was telling in those closing few minutes.

Officiating in this league is so inconsistent. There seems to be an agenda for teams in the top 6. Although we got away with the 'offside' goal early on.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by wilko154
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13 hours ago, TRO said:

Good post and well balanced in my view.

i think their goal keeper is amazing, so no complaints about Conor on that....I think Wes should have been quicker to anticipate, but there again Virgil is amongst the worlds best too.

For me, the error is the back post on both counts.....it looked Vulnerable there all afternoon and looked Vulnerable against lesser teams too.

many moons ago

Alan Wright, despite, his diminutive stature, was glued to that post during his time with us and saved many a goal in his endeavours.....its not a question of marking the post itself, its question of marking the area adjacent to it where top players target to get their purchase....they sniff out these weaknesses and capitalise.....and washes away all our great work carried out during the game.

its not a question of asking for the impossible, its more a case of being prudent and denying very good teams an easy route back in to a game.

Futher more....I feel we should be able as experiened supporters , be able to debate our possible shortfalls and still be able to applaud the team for their other work, without being accused of being ungrateful for the progress so far.

In the main, no has criticised what was a fine spirited performance.....even, many Liverpool fans were impressed with us.

I say, take a bow Dean.....now tighten up on some finer points that are easily doable.

Don't get me wrong, I'm with you on the posts thing. :) Just saying what I've heard those against it says. And I've heard some keepers who don't like to have a player there. And mostly I think it's up to the keeper. I actually think I remember seeing Wright save at least one goal there. :) But anyway, it's hard to say how many goals who's been saved by not having a player there. But like you I prefer if there is.

I don't mind having a debate about misstakes, but I think i this game most of the misstakes came due to tiredness. But there've still been some valid points of criticism. Hard to take someone saying that DS should be sacked, though. But yes, there are definetely a few things to work on. Would be more than surprised if there wasn't. :) 

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On 02/11/2019 at 17:14, Bizzzle said:

Would rather use lose 5-0 than the way we did today! Didn't expect a win or a draw but to lose it in the dying seconds is beyond depressing 

Not as depressing as reading your post about preferring to lose 5 - 0.

How utterly ludicrous. 

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Everytime we lose i feel like i'm hearing the same s*** over and over.

"Plenty of positives to take, we'll learn from it, we were unlucky, wasn't meant to be."

TBH i'm starting to get fed up with it. Look at the Spurs, Arsenal and Liverpool losses. It's all the same. We get passive in the second half and hand the game to the opponent. We lack aggressiveness, look scared and as a result of constant pressure we inevitable make errors or lose concentration and lose the game.

Don't think we are learning. We are making the same mistakes every time.

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44 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Look at the Spurs, Arsenal and Liverpool losses

"Newly promoted team loses tight games to top 4" isn't exactly where we need to be judging our performances tbh.

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26 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

"Newly promoted team loses tight games to top 4" isn't exactly where we need to be judging our performances tbh.

But Sheff utd have acquitted themselves, very well against Liverpool and Arsenal....and spent very little.

I do agree with your sentiment.....but at the same time, we need to eliminate some costly errors.

We are playing well in general.....but lapses are negating our well earned work.

 

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