Ratings & Reactions: Villa v Liverpool

[terrytini]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

Observations Terry......there is a subtle difference.

No one is criticising a well spirited performance.

“ we need to wise up “ .....one persons “ observation” is another’s criticism.

I repeat, most of what’s been said is common to all sides and will be seen to be so.

Before the game you were certain we’d be steamrollered due to our failings, pace I think was one of them,  .......as that didn’t happen the emphasis has changed to something else.

[terrytini]

Also...I’ve read plenty of criticism on here !

And it was much much more than “ a spirited performance”....

[terrytini]

“Not a prayer.

They are too quick and we are too slow,in every aspect, for this game.”

[Vive_La_Villa]

12 hours ago, TRO said:

I think we have to be careful here....criticised maybe not.....observed why we conceded so late again, why not.....when its not the first time.

We have come a long way in 12 months and we are all grateful for that.....but other teams have done well too like Sheff Utd.

I too can see improvement as well as I can still see flaws and those same flaws are in evidence against Liverpool as they were against Bournemouth and Brighton....and they are there when we win and when we lose.

Our play is easy on the eye in many ways, but benevolent too, we are too open in the middle of the park and give the ball away too cheaply.....Dean has his way, which is different to Chris Wilder and both have done well, personally so far I think we have the better players, but Sheff Utd has slightly the better team, for now.

We have some way to go.....I just hope some of the shortfalls I see do get dealt with in time.

I think they’ll get dealt with as the players get better. We had players absolutely shattered or injured and our options on the bench are not good enough for this level in my opinion. Bringing on Elmo, Hourihane and Kodija made us a weaker team at a crucial time but Smith had no other alternatives. 

Stay up this season and then we can continue the rebuild. 

[TRO]

11 hours ago, terrytini said:

“ we need to wise up “ .....one persons “ observation” is another’s criticism.

I repeat, most of what’s been said is common to all sides and will be seen to be so.

Before the game you were certain we’d be steamrollered due to our failings, pace I think was one of them,  .......as that didn’t happen the emphasis has changed to something else.

I accept that.....

but one was a prediction.....the other was commenting on the game itself, not sure what your reference meant.....should we not mention short comings and just keep them to ourselves for comfort.?

in answer to my change of heart.....we showed a spirited performance, i thought maybe wasn't possible....in doing so we put ourselves in an unexpected position.

We had 8 minutes to go, to deny a team who had spent 87 minutes trying to break through our defence and failed.....failed....European champions and all.

We then proceed for what ever the reasons are to fail to pick up players to see out the game.....basic stuff this, yes fatigue, may have played a part....but i think its worth highlighting in order to improve.

I think those errors are worth talking about....not to castigate or criticise, but to identify area's where we can improve to secure the points to stay up and improve our stature as a team.

Our season will not be defined against Man City or Liverpool.....but similar errors have been recorded against lesser teams.....also lesser teams will exploit the nature of those same errors.

It doesn't matter what words i use i.e " wise up" or whatever......we have to eliminate these kind of errors, that have been repeated i.e Brighton.

Terry, you know the old saying......if you do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result its the sign of insanity.

We have to tighten up particularly at crucial moments, the tragedy is, that perfromance will be forgotten so the 8 minute lapse has just washed away 87 minutes of commendable work.

Edited November 4, 2019 by TRO

[foreveryoung]

I think most agree the subs let us down. Kodja, no way, Konsa yes, tighten us up with fresh legs, we shouldn't have been interested in attacking at that stage, so Kodja was a strange sub for me.

[PieFacE]

16 hours ago, flashingqwerty said:

Did bringing Hourihane on weaken the side? Yes!

Did bringing on kodjia weaken the side? Yes

Has DS made similar poor decisions before? Hell yes

Has his ingame management improved since his arrival? I don't see any evidence that it has.

I'm not saying he hasnt been great for us, but can we really afford for his game management to cost us as many points as it already has?

Dude, our bench is one of a club in the Championship, the quality will inevitably drop when they come onto the pitch. But what other choice do we have? We aren't blessed with options, we're in a building process. Smith has a way of playing, and I **** love it. When the players from our bench are of a higher standard, we'll start seeing better results. 

[AVTuco]

54 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

I think most agree the subs let us down. Kodja, no way, Konsa yes, tighten us up with fresh legs, we shouldn't have been interested in attacking at that stage, so Kodja was a strange sub for me.

Kodja's orders were to keep the ball, not really attack.

[Vive_La_Villa]

I was disappointed that our wingers didn’t cover their full backs in the last 10 minutes. It was a fantastic ball by Mane but we should never be allowing their full backs headers from 6 yards out.  Robertson had so much room and El Ghazi switched off, could see it happening all game.

The second goal was a fantastic header but I don’t get why we don’t put a player on the post.   

Having said all that Firminhos goal should have stood and then it would have been a different game.  It’s hard to stomach but they maybe edged it.

[Vive_La_Villa]

4 minutes ago, AVTuco said:

Kodja's orders were to keep the ball, not really attack.

Kodija with fresh legs put no pressure on their midfield or defenders. They were able to bring the ball out with ease. Really wish we had a striker that would press from player to player like Mcginn does. Just run your bollocks off for the team for 10 minutes ffs! 

Edited November 3, 2019 by Vive_La_Villa

[AVTuco]

2 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Kodija with fresh legs put no pressure on their midfield or defenders. They were able to bring the ball with ease. Really wish we had a striker that would press from player to player like Mcginn does. Just run your bollocks off for the team for 10 minutes ffs! 

Yep, they were orders, he failed to execute them.

[terrytini]

I’m with those fans and pundits who reckon it was Klopps ability to bring on millions and millions of pounds worth of talent that got them over the line.

Its not mandatory to attribute the goals of other teams solely due to your own failings. I’d rather enjoy the defensive performance over the whole game than focus on the bit where it didn’t work.

In the end for me it still comes down to expectations.

Why on earth would a team that was mid table in the championship seven months ago be able to handle everything the Premier League throws at them.

Id have much much more time for the fault finding if it were this time next season. Although even then I’m not sure I’d be finding faults with a game like yesterday’s.

[lapal_fan]

31 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Kodija with fresh legs put no pressure on their midfield or defenders. They were able to bring the ball out with ease. Really wish we had a striker that would press from player to player like Mcginn does. Just run your bollocks off for the team for 10 minutes ffs! 

His awareness and effort to clear the ball for their winner was absolutely pants as well.  Just half arsed a dangled foot out.

I like kodjia, but I'm looking forward to when we have someone better to come off the bench.  Little steps.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, terrytini said:

“Not a prayer.

They are too quick and we are too slow,in every aspect, for this game.”

Well maybe a bit foregone in my predictions....and i did not envisage going 87 minutes leading the European champions......but if you think i am going to wallow in a defeat, i will never do that....i will always look for reasons, not excuses,( there is a difference there too) why we lost......but Terry despite the spirited performance and my harsh prediction.....i was right, we still lost.

If it was 2 worldies.....i would not be as concerned, but they were avoidable.

That is the best i have seen from Trez and El Ghazi....that is the quickest i have seen them....I now know they have pace, so they CAN do it....even against the best full backs in the league.....so against lesser teams, we need to see it.

 

[TRO]

10 hours ago, terrytini said:

I’m with those fans and pundits who reckon it was Klopps ability to bring on millions and millions of pounds worth of talent that got them over the line.

Its not mandatory to attribute the goals of other teams solely due to your own failings. I’d rather enjoy the defensive performance over the whole game than focus on the bit where it didn’t work.

In the end for me it still comes down to expectations.

Why on earth would a team that was mid table in the championship seven months ago be able to handle everything the Premier League throws at them.

Id have much much more time for the fault finding if it were this time next season. Although even then I’m not sure I’d be finding faults with a game like yesterday’s.

Terry, very noble of you and i respect your opinion.

I too got much from the game.....but to think this is the first time for these errors is disingenuous.....may I also draw your attention, to little old Sheffield United, who have certainly surpassed my expectations on a miserly budget.....They by contrast to us have a workaholic approach and out trump us in many of our shortfalls.....IMO.I think like Dean, Chris Wilder has done a fantastic job.......so far.He has also proved its what you get from players, not just money spent.

Dean has worked wonders and I accept our club nearly went to the wall.....and I am certainly behind Dean in his quest to improve us even further.....as for your comments about watching the game for the second time and not seeing any "hoof ball" or "scrappy clearances"or any "standing off".....i suggest you watch for a third time, John McGinn despite his timely interceptions failed on many occasions to close down as did Luiz

Its clear, i take defeat much worse than you and i will always look at ways to avoid it.

The development is something we all expect to happen over time and the better players coming in will help.....but we are talking about the here and now, not what is to come.

those are my ......observations.

ps despite my observations...i did stay behind to clap them off.

Edited November 4, 2019 by TRO

[VillaFaninLondon]

1 hour ago, PieFacE said:

Dude, our bench is one of a club in the Championship, the quality will inevitably drop when they come onto the pitch. But what other choice do we have? We aren't blessed with options, we're in a building process. Smith has a way of playing, and I **** love it. When the players from our bench are of a higher standard, we'll start seeing better results. 

Agree, that's why Smith can't be too harshly blamed, not for his subs anyway. Liverpool could bring on Oxlade Chamberlain, Origi and Keita and still leave Milner, Fabinho and Gomez on the bench. Unfortunately, as much as they've been good for us in the past, if we're to compete at the upper ends of this league we need to have better squad players than the likes of Kodjia, Hourihane and Lansbury. We can only do this by investing and investing cleverly.

 

We could certainly take a leaf out of Leicester's book in this regard - signings like Pereira, Maddison, Tielemans and Soyuncu would easily take this club to the next level. We desperately need another quality playmaker to cover Jack if he gets injured too - and someone of a much better level than Jota. 

[The Fun Factory]

I am so proud of the players who went toe to toe with the European Champions and should have got at least a point from yesterday. In the first half we gave them numerous problems for a side that has not been beaten in league football since January. Every player gave their all and the atmosphere was tremendous. You just have to remember how far we have come in a year- 12 months ago we were mid table in the championship.  

The last time we played Liverpool it was one of my worst experiences of watching football. It was a total and abject humiliation of a tired  and stale football club steaming towards relegation and a miserable future. That side had given up and played with no purpose. Such a contrast for today's side both on and off the pitch. It is going to take time but we are on our way back.

[MadridVilla]

5 hours ago, terrytini said:

The most common time to conceed goals is the 90th minute ‘plus’.

As to why, there’s a few reasons including more likelihood of fatigue ( especially against better opponents), and more likelihood of pressure ( if you are winning against better opponents).

And also because stoppage time is longer than 1 minute. Of course you're more likely to score in stoppage time if it lasts 5 minutes compared to, say, the 55th minute which is only a minute long. The other factors you mentioned are just as valid, but it's a statistic you can't read too much into imo.

The issue still remains with late goals in games - whether it is fatigue, loss of concentration, poor substitutions or poor tactics it's a mistake we've made several times already this season and lost a lot of points because of it. I wonder now whether it is becoming a mental block for the players too because it is happening so often to us.

[KMitch]

4 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I think they’ll get dealt with as the players get better. We had players absolutely shattered or injured and our options on the bench are not good enough for this level in my opinion. Bringing on Elmo, Hourihane and Kodija made us a weaker team at a crucial time but Smith had no other alternatives. 

Stay up this season and then we can continue the rebuild. 

EXACTLY...  I see the same criticism of Smith every game we lose -- "His subs were poor" -- No, the quality of players on the bench is dreadful.  The only position we actually have some quality/depth at is Central Midfield, meanwhile we don't even have players good enough to be playing week in and week out as our wingers/wide forwards, which is why Grealish is being forced out wide.  We don't have anyone on the bench who can make an impact when we need a threat.

[Brumstopdogs]