The Hung Like a Donkey General Election December 2019 Thread

[bickster]

13 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

good news

This is behaviour to be encouraged

[HanoiVillan]

59 minutes ago, blandy said:

There's a massive amount of cynicism and of self -preservation and manouevring going on across Lib Dems, Tories, Labour, SNP... it's depressing, but not unexpected. In every case, it's possible to see why they did what they did, to see the fig-leaf of an excuse, but it's also really easy to see the personal gain/preservation aspect and the party first aspect.

For the Lib Dem party, they get some impetus from yet another MP that was in another party joining them, they get a candidate who is "known" in her consituency and obviously won it last time. For the MP she gets the chance to keep a highly paid job after having been thrown out of the tories for being anti Johnson's no deal stupidity.

Yes, I agree with all of those points.

My point wasn't really her or their cynicism, though; behaving cynically goes with the territory in politics. My broader point is that this opportunism should be priced-in when we're considering how likely it is that the Lib Dems will take actions that will annoy, or be seen as a betrayal by, their new voters. For instance, the discussion from the last couple of pages was whether Swinson might form an alliance (if presumably not a coalition) with the Tories, to pass the Withdrawal Agreement as long as a second referendum is attached. It's not hard to see how that would appeal to the increasingly-large proportion of their parliamentary party who are refugees from the Conservatives, that have nevertheless voted on more than one occasion for a Brexit deal to be passed. 

[snowychap]

3 minutes ago, bickster said:

Second-hand car salesman is still a step up from the second-hand toilet roll salesman that Farage is

Nigel Farage and Richard Tice launch Brexit Party election campaign.

[desensitized43]

Just now, bickster said:

This is behaviour to be encouraged

Farage is finally being honest about what he's really been after this entire time.

All that shit he spouted about being like Switzerland and Norway was just that...shit.

Just a shame so many in the media are so far up his arse they won't call out his obvious lies.

[StefanAVFC]

 

[Wainy316]

Farage and Boris at loggerheads would be great news

[Genie]

I still fail to see how this general election will finally sort brexit out.

[bickster]

4 minutes ago, Genie said:

I still fail to see how this general election will finally sort brexit out.

The only way it is possible for the GE to sort Brexit out is for the country to elect the Tory Party into a majority or near majority government

[Vive_La_Villa]

Going back to the racist voter as discussed on first page. 

In the past I would have always thought that the ‘racist’ vote would generally be labour or UKIP rather than Tory.  

Is that an incorrect assumption?

[bickster]

8 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Going back to the racist voter as discussed on first page. 

In the past I would have always thought that the ‘racist’ vote would generally be labour or UKIP rather than Tory.  

Is that an incorrect assumption?

I'd say the Tories have more racist supporters than Labour, though both have plenty. 

[sharkyvilla]

10 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Going back to the racist voter as discussed on first page. 

In the past I would have always thought that the ‘racist’ vote would generally be labour or UKIP rather than Tory.  

Is that an incorrect assumption?

Unfortunately racism is prevalent in all classes, therefore you'd get them supporting all kinds of parties.  It's also difficult to define whether stuff like being anti-immigration makes you a racist.

[StefanAVFC]

23 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Going back to the racist voter as discussed on first page. 

In the past I would have always thought that the ‘racist’ vote would generally be labour or UKIP rather than Tory.  

Is that an incorrect assumption?

Not now.

In 2017 the UKIP vote (previously Labour) collapsed and mostly went to the Tories.

There's also a lot of Moderate Tories who despise the far right swing of the modern Tory party who will vote Lib Dem.

It will be interesting.

[snowychap]

 

[Lichfield Dean]

Feels a bit like Farage has just screwed both Brexit and the Tory Party in one statement.

[Rodders]

6 minutes ago, Lichfield Dean said:

Feels a bit like Farage has just screwed both Brexit and the Tory Party in one statement.

fingers crossed, though I'm sure he knows what he's doing. The prickstain

[PompeyVillan]

13 minutes ago, snowychap said:

 

That is an interesting point, however surely the Brexit party have done their homework on this? I think they'll be taking votes from Labour and traditional Conservatives. 

What remains to be seen (see what I did there?) whether Labour can convince remain supporters of another referendum is their best route to remaining in the EU. I think it is, partly because the Lid Dems policy lacks any sort of pragmatism.. 

Let's be honest, Lib Dems policy is pie in the sky. It could only be implemented if they win a majority (which ain't happening), and even then, they would revoke article 50, put their fingers in their ears and pretend that the last three years didn't happen?

Ironically for hardcore remainers, the worst choice if you want to remain in the EU. Especially if it takes votes from Labour in constituencies that Labour can win, and let's the Tories in unwittingly. 

A people's vote is the most realistic route to remaining in the EU, even then, it's fanciful. 

Ironically, I think you could argue the reverse with the Brexit party and the Conservatives regarding leaving the EU. However the Brexit party are promoting a different flavour of leave, the full blown no deal, wreck the country stuff and that's remarkably popular. 

I tend to think the 'traditional' demographic voting trends will change a bit in this election, but not dramatically enough to 'end the two party system'.

[Mozzavfc]

12 minutes ago, Rodders said:

fingers crossed, though I'm sure he knows what he's doing. The prickstain

Remaining is great for Farage 

He gets to continue to keep his cushy MEP job and get his Russian money

Edited November 1, 2019 by Mozzavfc
Words are hard

[Genie]

2 minutes ago, Mozzavfc said:

Remaining is great for Farage 

He gets to continue to keep his cushy MEP job and get his Russian money

That is true.

What will he do for work after we've left?

It'll all go to shit so he'll have to go into hiding.

[StefanAVFC]

Farage expected to lose, narrowly, so he could continue his fight to leave.

Now we voted to Leave, he needs to fight against any and all leave outcomes.

Thickos don't see through it.

[snowychap]

17 minutes ago, PompeyVillan said:

That is an interesting point, however surely the Brexit party have done their homework on this?

Why would you believe this to be the case?

17 minutes ago, PompeyVillan said:

I think they'll be taking votes from Labour and traditional Conservatives.

I'm sorry but this is rather meaningless.

I don't think that anybody disputes that parties 'take' votes off other parties but the question to be addressed is will they do it in the same way or in the same numbers?

In case you didn't read the subsequent tweets to the one I posted (to which you responded):

 

Edited November 1, 2019 by snowychap