The Hung Like a Donkey General Election December 2019 Thread

[Wainy316]

6 minutes ago, mrbojangles said:

Dont get politics at all however, have Labour costed up all of this stuff and do they have a sensible plan without plunging the Nation into further debt? There  seems to be a lot of giving stuff away and more money to everyone with not much downside?Not having a pop at JC i am just genuinely interested in a simple breakdown that a layman could understand

'Fully Costed' is the phrase they use.  I believe they released figures alongside the last Manifesto so would expect it this time too.

[Chindie]

They've released a second supporting document that outlines how they'll fund the manifesto.

I expect every media outlet to desperately look to get a Labour rep stumble over the figures in every interview very shortly. Lead to the distasteful mockery of Abbott last time to Tory delight.

[peterms]

35 minutes ago, mrbojangles said:

have Labour costed up all of this stuff and do they have a sensible plan without plunging the Nation into further debt?

Don't worry about "plunging the nation into debt".  The FT recently ran a piece about the global problem of the shortage of safe assets, ie government bonds, ie public "debt".

Quote

Government bonds issued by big developed economies have surged in price this year — pushing yields to record lows. A key reason is that these “safe assets” are in short supply. A wide variety of investors and corporations prize the highest-quality government bonds for their cash-like qualities — and the near certainty of getting their money back. This demand has grown since the financial crisis as central banks hoover up a hefty slice of bond markets under quantitative easing programmes. According to research by Oxford Economics, the resultant global shortage of these safe assets is going to get worse.

The things you need to worry about are private debt, with so many people having so much debt and so little room for manoeuvre when we hit the next set of problems, and also proposals like the illiterate madness from the Libdems about creating a government surplus, in other words taking money out of the economy and pushing more people even further into debt.

A large programme of investment is exactly what is needed.  If that is geared at tackling climate change, and building homes to let people rent at affordable prices and not go further into personal debt to give landlords even more unearned income, even better.  And if the new government decides to issue more bonds as a consequence, I should think the pension funds and other institutional investors will be very happy to buy them.

[NurembergVillan]

1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

It's a lie stefan come on mate you really think he can deliver free internet/wifi to everyone in the UK? 

Whether it was said during the debate or the day before it's irrelevant. Its funny your concentrating on that part of my post but not answering the question I directed at you how he intends to pay for this when we all know it's utter garbage and a complete lie.

The UK Labour party wants to tax Amazon, Facebook and Google to fund a $25 billion plan for free, high-speed internet for the whole country

Quote

Labour said it would reform the system to tax large tech companies on their global profits rather than those registered in the UK.

The party has criticized companies for structuring their companies in ways that send profits to low-tax jurisdictions and effectively avoid paying higher taxes in markets where their consumers are located.

Labour said it would take an as-yet-undisclosed portion of worldwide profits, meant to reflect the company's footprint in the UK.

https://www.businessinsider.com/labour-proposes-25bn-tax-tech-giants-fund-free-internet-2019-11?r=US&IR=T

[bickster]

57 minutes ago, peterms said:

By making a mistake.  It's quite possible to believe something that is false and to make a claim on that basis (this thread contains multiple examples).  Lying is making a claim you know to be false.

Granted maybe my hurry to type in work is partly at fault there as I clearly understand the difference, I was referring to this particular post.

Dem mistakenly heard Corbyn talking about Free Broadband in the debate where it never happened? Remember he said he's just finished watching it when he posted

I'm not sure that is a credible claim

[peterms]

1 minute ago, bickster said:

Granted maybe my hurry to type in work is partly at fault there as I clearly understand the difference, I was referring to this particular post.

Yes, I can't speak for what Dem intended by his post, just commenting on the general point.

[tonyh29]

2 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

Sigh I'm out of here this site is just not right . Standing up for someone who has accused me of being a liar for my mistake for is me unacceptable. Then comparing me to someone like trump?? Utterly disgusting

I'm shocked you haven't stood up for this as a moderator. I made a mistake like so many others have in many posts yet they are not called liars and then defended for it.

I'm leaving this place you can't have a opinion and this is straight up bullying I don't need it in my life. 

Goodbye villatalk it's been fun made some great friends here but I can't stay on this site while this continues to happen and people are belittled and bullied by some people for having a different opinion to them.

I wish you all well even those who seem to have a problem with me and my views. 

Dem ,  I sympathize with your comment and there are times the site clearly favours a particular agenda , but in political threads  we know VT is predominantly frequented by the great unwashed  , you can either roll with it , fight your corner or just not visit the politics threads , it doesn't need to be an all or nothing approach to the site   ..

Back in the old days the political fighting in Bolitics topics was way way worse than it is today   , but you know what ,  I've met those very same posters , I don't agree with them on politics but I'm still happy to call them "friends"  , emotions get high sometimes , things get said , the trick is not to take it personally

you've got a lot of friends on this site , you're one of its characters , heck you've even got your own word ,Demglish ,  which puts you on a unique pedestal alongside the Mooney man in the VT legend stakes

 

[StefanAVFC]

Not to go too post on poster here, but nobody is bullying anyone.

A mistake was made, a false statement was made and instead of retracting and stating 'sorry I was wrong', doubling down occurred and accusations of bullying.

Best to reflect on what happened, think about how it could have been handled differently, then taking your ball and going home IMO.

Accusing people of bullying for calling out falsehoods isn't a good look.

[tonyh29]

3 hours ago, mrbojangles said:

Dont get politics at all however, have Labour costed up all of this stuff and do they have a sensible plan without plunging the Nation into further debt? There  seems to be a lot of giving stuff away and more money to everyone with not much downside?Not having a pop at JC i am just genuinely interested in a simple breakdown that a layman could understand

they are funding it on a lot of assumptions  , one that frankly involves the mythical unicorn and money forest  ... but  tbh all I see it doing is preaching to the converted  with ideological rhetoric , that isn't a manifesto that is going to get Tory's switching party , which is what labour need to get a majority  ...  if they wanted to get the support of older people away from the Tory's  then I can't help think that labour missed a trick with their everything is free  scam by not offering the over 70's free trips to dignitas  , of course as a policy its slightly flawed in that it doesn't help with getting repeat votes going forward , unless those under 25's get their way and you can nominate an old person who voted leave for a free trip

Edited November 21, 2019 by tonyh29

[Sam-AVFC]

6 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

they are funding it on a lot of assumptions

That's sort of the way this works though. You can obviously disagree with the predictions, but I don't think any party has a time traveller on the payroll!

Do you genuinely think it's better to try and predict how you could raise revenue to fund manifesto or to say you're going to spend X and make absolutely no commitment on how?

[NurembergVillan]

2 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

That's sort of the way this works though. You can obviously disagree with the predictions, but I don't think any party has a time traveller on the payroll!

Liz Truss is a space cadet.

[Sam-AVFC]

5 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said:

Liz Truss is a space cadet.

I knew the guy who told me the ISS is a secret time travelling machine for the 'deep state' running the world was right!

[bickster]

24 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said:

Liz Truss is a space cadet.

They have a lot of Space Cadets, their problem is they don't have a single rocket scientist

[NurembergVillan]

If this were Diane Abbott you wouldn't be able to walk down the street for all the dogs growing crazy over the whistling...

 

[choffer]

20 minutes ago, bickster said:

They have a lot of Space Cadets, their problem is they don't have a single rocket scientist

I'd be fairly certain that if they had a rocket, it would be well polished.

[jackbauer24]

8 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

Yeah let's let brexit drag on for another two years and then on top of that give Scotland another referendum. That will be great for the economy all this uncertainty.

Best case is your second scenario mate 

Whilst I agree with you in principle (I want to remain) it's too simplistic a view. It's yet another quick fix rather than properly dealing with ths mess we're in. If it was just cancelled it would reappear again soon enough and the arguments would be so easy to spin as 'not listened to'. The Tories put a hole in the wall, I could quickly cover it with a picture but I'd rather sort the issue out properly and replaster. It might take a few months longer but this desire to 'just get it done' (on either side of the debate) is too simplistic to be effective.

[Dodgyknees]

2 hours ago, NurembergVillan said:

Liz Truss is a space cadet.

I still would.

[snowychap]

 

[snowychap]

16 minutes ago, avfcDJ said:

2 hours ago, NurembergVillan said:

Liz Truss is a space cadet.

I still would.

Edited November 21, 2019 by snowychap

[bickster]

2 minutes ago, snowychap said: