The Hung Like a Donkey General Election December 2019 Thread

[Mic09]

13 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

While there are lots of poorly informed voters, I think people understand this dynamic better than you give them credit for. Even people who know nothing at all about politics know that they pay national insurance. But sure, call it 'free at the point of use' if it makes you happier. 

I sincerely hope you are correct!

What I question is whether an average voter has a good understanding of how ''throwing freebies'' as @Demitri_C put it affects costs of services, inflation or possibly higher taxation of other goods.

[HanoiVillan]

 

 

19 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

What are you lost about? As stated a few times above I believe the free broadband that Corbyn is preaching is a utter lie.

Do you understand that we're talking about a hypothetical situation in which Labour has won a majority in the election? 

[Mic09]

I also question whether anyone from the Labour camp is willing to call it 'free at the point of use'.

[StefanAVFC]

31 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

What are you lost about? As stated a few times above I believe the free broadband that Corbyn is preaching is a utter lie.

Okay.

He didn't mention it in the debate though.

[mikeyp102]

56 minutes ago, avfcDJ said:

People on Universal Credit HAVE TO log on each day to add their job search information, and are required to spend 35 hours per week searching. All of this must be detailed in a work log.

I know someody who gets £270 a month for UC. 

Bus travel per week is £25 alone.

Out of that they pay £30 a month in order to use their phone to log all the info. Otherwise they get sanctioned, heavily. No choice in it, and no help towards the cost.

I doubt very much that a lot of people claiming benefits actually log 35 hrs searching for a job. They also don’t just use the internet for logging jobs. Public libraries have free internet access. Luckily I’m employed, but on the very small occasions I have been unemployed I was down the library using their computers. No one else was there. 

[Demitri_C]

28 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

 

 

Do you understand that we're talking about a hypothetical situation in which Labour has won a majority in the election? 

Yes but what does that have to do with what Labour are promising? 

[Demitri_C]

17 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Okay.

He didn't mention it in the debate though.

Doesnt really make a difference as it was still said and promised by Corbyn 

Edited November 21, 2019 by Demitri_C

[mjmooney]

13 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said:

Public libraries have free internet access.

The public libraries that are being closed down left, right and centre due to austerity cuts, you mean? 

[Chindie]

54 minutes ago, snowychap said:

It seems your skepticism may have been closer the mark than my appraisal at the time.

 

Colour me shocked.

Although in fairness they also have an obvious plan to distance themselves from Labour as far as possible so you could argue they need to sell themselves as not working with Labour to entice wavering Tory voters.

But no... They'll jump in bed with the Tories as soon as they can for a shit referendum deal.

[peterms]

29 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

I also question whether anyone from the Labour camp is willing to call it 'free at the point of use'.

"Free at the point of use" is the specific phrase that has been used in Labour policy documents for literally decades for various services.  A simple web search for the phrase plus "labour" will show you many examples.

[Dodgyknees]

26 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said:

I doubt very much that a lot of people claiming benefits actually log 35 hrs searching for a job. They also don’t just use the internet for logging jobs. Public libraries have free internet access. Luckily I’m employed, but on the very small occasions I have been unemployed I was down the library using their computers. No one else was there. 

You literally have to LOG how much work you have done. I've seen it, I've been helping people with spelling and learning issues cope because nobody else does.

Each night, for every single job:

Log on, add the date, job title, company, as well as a short description of what the job is and how you applied.

Second, some libraries have access - but this might shock you, a lot of local Libraries have closed, open less, have less staff, don't have computers - and the closest one to one person I'm helping is a £3.50 bus ride (in each direction) away.

I'd consider yourself lucky for being employed.

Edited November 21, 2019 by avfcDJ

[StefanAVFC]

12 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Doesnt really make a difference as it was still said and promised by Corbyn 

You made a false claim in your initial post. And again, not sure how he's lying. It's a manifesto pledge, in the hypothetical situation in which Labour get into Government.

Corbyn has enough faults and things to criticise without making things up.

[HanoiVillan]

26 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Yes but what does that have to do with what Labour are promising? 

Well, the way legislatures work is that if you win a majority of seats in them, you can get legislation passed. So if Labour won a majority of seats, then they would seek to implement the promises made in their manifesto. This is what all parties do. 

[Dodgyknees]

From what I have seen, the people mostly impacted by the UC system are young people, people with learning difficulties, elderly people, and people with mental health issues.

I've seen somebody get sanctioned 8 weeks money when they missed an appointment, they had a miscarriage that morning.

I see so much shit people go through - for my job, as well as voluntary work, that I sometimes go home and cry.

[Sam-AVFC]

1 minute ago, avfcDJ said:

From what I have seen, the people mostly impacted by the UC system are young people, people with learning difficulties, elderly people, and people with mental health issues.

I've seen somebody get sanctioned 8 weeks money when they missed an appointment, they had a miscarriage that morning.

I see so much shit people go through - for my job, as well as voluntary work, that I sometimes go home and cry.

That example is completely abhorrent.

I know you don't expect it, but you deserve massive credit for doing what you can as it must be a huge emotional drain.

[Dodgyknees]

Just now, Sam-AVFC said:

That example is completely abhorrent.

I know you don't expect it, but you deserve massive credit for doing what you can as it must be a huge emotional drain.

I was unemployed and probably on the road to bad things when I was young, people lifted me, it's only right to do the same when things are worse.

[blandy]

1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said:

There's also an important argument that when - for example - the provision of Universal Credit is entirely online, then people should have universal access to universal services

Trivia in the scheme of things, but along with this free internet Labour’s is binning Universal Credit

[bobzy]

3 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

Just watched the debate two complete utter incompetent liars. Boris diving from privatizing the nhs and Corbyn with his lies about providing free broadband to all

You’re lying and apparently don’t like liars. Phenomenal stuff. 

[HanoiVillan]

8 minutes ago, blandy said:

Trivia in the scheme of things, but along with this free internet Labour’s is binning Universal Credit

Yes, that's true. However, I think we can assume that online provision will be the standard for other benefits for the poorest as well (it certainly will be if everybody has free-at-the-point-of-use broadband). 

[HanoiVillan]