Ratings & Reactions: Villa v Burnley

[TRO]

6 hours ago, Lerner's Driver said:

Realistically, this year was always going to be difficult and I know wishing for anything else is just me expressing deluded entitlement, but why oh why, couldn't our momentum continue. It just feels so typically Villa to look promising and then kill ourselves.

We ALWAYS do.

In that way, last year felt surreal because the glory was delivered and reality just never interfered, but the dream is well and truly over now. Fully awake and nothing but a long hard slog from here on.

Joy.

I think we have had a physicality issue for some time, I think Mings has helped, but its still there in too many......its just my opinion, but I think if Leeds had of beaten Derby last season, it might have been a different scenario, I think we may have struggled at Wembley.

Hypothetical, I know.....its just my view.

I know many will disagree, but i don't think we can afford to play 4-3-3.....I don't think we have the personnel good enough to make it work consistently  or sufficiently to secure points.

 

[PrimevalVillan]

So about Burnley's goals:

Taylor to blame for both but:

- El Ghazi was clearly fouled before the first

- Heaton probably needs to intercept the second

 

I don't think Wes had a great game by any stretch but I didn't think he was terrible. Wouldn't mind to see Davis get a chance next game as he has been playing well and he works his tail off.

[VillaJ100]

15 hours ago, pacbuddies said:

Simply not good enough. 8 points dropped from winning positions so far this season. We need to be winning our home games against the lesser teams like Burnley as we will struggle away from home.

Yep we are way too slow to play on the break away I think it's only trez who has any pace. 

[AVTuco]

6 hours ago, PrimevalVillan said:

So about Burnley's goals:

Taylor to blame for both but:

- El Ghazi was clearly fouled before the first

- Heaton probably needs to intercept the second

 

I don't think Wes had a great game by any stretch but I didn't think he was terrible. Wouldn't mind to see Davis get a chance next game as he has been playing well and he works his tail off.

Taylor was at fault for the first one, but in the second Mings and Engels lost the battle in front of the goal in the same manner as Taylor did in the first.

[VillaJ100]

7 hours ago, TRO said:

I think we have had a physicality issue for some time, I think Mings has helped, but its still there in too many......its just my opinion, but I think if Leeds had of beaten Derby last season, it might have been a different scenario, I think we may have struggled at Wembley.

Hypothetical, I know.....its just my view.

I know many will disagree, but i don't think we can afford to play 4-3-3.....I don't think we have the personnel good enough to make it work consistently  or sufficiently to secure points.

 

I agree. We have looked like a team of small/slight players for years now. To be brutally honest, we weren't ready or good enough really to go up last year. Yeah I know we won the playoffs but we only just got in after the longest winning streak in our history which let's face it is a bit of a statistical outlier. 

We look like we COULD survive, but we've played shit against 10 men and thrown away a lot of leads. That's worse than having the same points but coming back. If we were short on quality but had came from 0-2 to 2-2 yday, 0-3 to 2-3 at arsenal etc we could say yeah we are poor but we're battlers who don't give up. As it is we just look like a team of bottlers

[Robbie09]

Saw plenty of positives yesterday, Targett’s injury changed the dynamic and limited Smith’s options. Had Kodja and Lansbury been available I think we would’ve comfortably seen the game out. 

I said before the game we needed at least 5 and ideally 7 points from the games against Burnley, Norwich and Brighton so a win next week will set us up nicely.

 

Edited September 29, 2019 by Robbie09

[TRO]

58 minutes ago, Robbie09 said:

Saw plenty of positives yesterday, Targett’s injury changed the dynamic and limited Smith’s options. Had Kodja and Lansbury been available I think we would’ve comfortably seen the game out. 

I said before the game we needed at least 5 and ideally 7 points from the games against Norwich and Brighton so a win next week will set us up nicely.

 

I think the introduction of Rodriguez at half time, changed the dynamic.....Targett going off compounded it.

I too saw plenty of positives.....I also seen some stale old negatives, that have blighted us for some time.

Edited September 29, 2019 by TRO

[TRO]

Watching Motd last night i was surprised that very little explanation or debate was afforded to our ruled out goal.....no lines across the pitch to ratify the decision or discussion of whether it should have stood.....just a brief run of the incident, which proved nothing.

I know we are not at the top table in MOTD's eyes, but in view of the fact they had sufficient interest to produce a league table of teams of dropped points from winning positions.....they had an opportunity to analyse this and dismissed it, hardly sophistcated journalism.....just sensationlist drivel to folk with a negative agenda towards us.

 

[TRO]

2 hours ago, AVTuco said:

Taylor was at fault for the first one, but in the second Mings and Engels lost the battle in front of the goal in the same manner as Taylor did in the first.

Guilbert and elghazi lost their battle on the edge of the box prior to that goal too.

The issue is this.. all teams have players who lose battles from time to time.....we have too many too often.

Edited September 29, 2019 by TRO

[villalad21]

Taylor was at fault, but. He was never going to win that aerial battle with Rodriguez.

[striker]

18 hours ago, holteend1982 said:

6 points from the next two minimum! 

Would love Villa to get more but not sure it’s possible.

Disappointing result again not closing out the game but I still feel that will come with more games as the team is still trying to adapt to Premier League football.

Wesley looks to be a dud signing so needs to be replaced by Davis then in January at least one other forward brought in.

[TRO]

15 hours ago, terrytini said:

@OutByEaster?what a fantastic post.

As to the conundrum you pose, I’d say we are not struggling physically, we are struggling mentally. Not massively, but by 5%. And that’s enough.

All those little 5%s all over the pitch, mostly in Second Halves, mostly in the final 30 minutes.

Why was Mings tearing up the pitch in the 87th minute ? Why not do what he’s done for 95% of every game ? Why did Engels ping a 50 yard ball into touch in the 92nd minute ? Why not play the 5 yard ball to Gilbert that he’s done 95% of the time ?  Why does Jack shoot in the (85th ? minute) why not pass as he has done 95% of the time ? And so on.

Why those little lapses ? Because going from being in the Championship ( which means, especially in our last couple of months, you always have that extra second over your opponent) to being new boys in the Premier League is a jump. I don’t think it’s a physical jump ( I’ll bet any money these players are not tiring). It’s like a County Championship Batsman suddenly playing Test Matches. Instead of a bad ball to hit every Over, it’s one every four overs.

I think we are getting up to speed but aren’t there yet and Premier League teams will target that.

Secondly, but linked in that it’s the mental side of the game, I think we are lacking some nastiness. Id like a Robbie Savage in that side. Nakamba looks like he might be able to fulfill that role to a point. Why isn’t someone feigning injury shortly after our second ? Wasting time ? All that stuff.

And, though some mock the concept, we are indeed having no luck at all.

I see plenty to give encouragement.

 

Terry, I agree with a lot of what you say here, in regards of savage etc, but your explanation is puzzling....To deny a physicality issue and then cite Savage is bizarre,i get the mentality reference, but they are linked.....for sure some smaller players, can impose themselves physically, but it is more difficult.....it does not go unnoticed that Mings has helped and Liverpool have improved since Van Dyck, Man City in contrast have missed Kompany.....If you watch the top teams and look past the technical skills a physicality is evident to give platform to those same skills.....they can close a game diwn and they can equally impose themselves.

This is not new to us, its been around our squad for some time.....this is not a moan, its an observation...

We had a similar problem in the championship, where physically agressive teams gained purchase from us.....i could cite loads of examples....The Cardiff away game, the exploits of big Matt smith in the defeat against QPR after the Wolves win, scoring 5 against Forest an inability to close down.....I Could go on.....Albion in the semi etc.

The thing for me is and anyone can interpret the proceedings any way they like, but after we score, we are at our most vulnerable......Clough used to say "the time to get your tackles in is after you have just scored".......In contrast we don't we don't pick up, track back or scrap for possession......some do of course, too many stand off or merely marshall their man as opposed to combative challenge.

Its got to such a fever pitch with the crowd, that when a player like John  McGinn joins us with his appetite for a challenge and his combative hips that turn players inside out, is it any wonder that he has achieved hero status.....we need more with his appetite or combative spirit.

We are not far away, and IMO despite dropping 8 points from winning positions and being harshly treated by the officials......we are getting better....last season we would have lost yesterdays game.

I don't think for one minute, we have players who can't compete physically....Mings, JM clearly can......we just don't have enough, for me, to alter the dynamic of a game.

Edited September 29, 2019 by TRO

[The Fun Factory]

Brighton is going to be massive now. Season defining.

[terrytini]

@TROI did follow up with an explanation to the effect I think physical FITNESS is not the problem, but physicality as in toughness and aggression

[TheMightyVillans]

Our two main problems were upfront with Wesley and when targett went off. Wesley couldnt keep a hold of anything and lost every aerial battle against Mee. Most of the time he didn't even jump. We then lost any sort of attacking threat on the left side when targett went off. In the first half grealish was cutting in and targett was in loads of space on the left. We have goals from other parts of the team so wesley doesn't need to score 15+ but he has to get involved and link others into play. At the moment this just isn't happening. It will probably ruin his confidence more but i think davis has to get a chance even if its just for one game.

[TRO]

8 hours ago, terrytini said:

@TROI did follow up with an explanation to the effect I think physical FITNESS is not the problem, but physicality as in toughness and aggression

Then I stand corrected.....and completely agree with you.

However, Terry.. to answer other poster calls....

.....Dean Smith has done more than enough to be allowed  time to sort out our issues.....I am sure he will.

In the mean time Taylor has to be left out.....too many moments of floundering.The wales fans have said the same.

Edited September 29, 2019 by TRO

[ExhallVillan]

Felt like a loss----too many are being out muscled too often---we need to get more physical,and used to the game management of so many of our opponents--we are novices in the "Best league in the world" and boy does it show!!!!

and we thought the refs were bad in the championship-----the egos of some so far this season is unbelieveable!!----

Edited September 29, 2019 by ExhallVillan

[romavillan]

On 28/09/2019 at 21:03, ChicagoVillan1983 said:

Villa absolutely bossed the first half, really creative - looked solid middle table/ top 8 team. Second half they (again) sat back and tried to cushion a 1 goal lead. Lost all the creative spark except for Jack/ John. Burnley basically scored almost every chance they had. Marvelous is everywhere in the middle of the park without doing anything other than a 5 yard pass (he’s a boss). But we keep putting in second half shifts like that and we’re relegation fodder.

Definitely ned to improve the game management. The way for a side that can pass as well as we can at times to play out a 1-0 is to not let the other team have ball, not sit deep and get too stretched. Smith won't like that happening, so hopefully we can cut it out. 

Their second goal was both the full back not showing his man wide and being close enough to block the cross, and the midfielder letting someone run off his shoulder in between the 2 centre backs. You could say the central defenders only had one player to deal with too so could have worked it out to pick up the man in space. 

[sidcow]

On 28/09/2019 at 16:58, Delphinho123 said:

Wesley and Smith cost us the game. 

Really? How many defensive errors did Wesley make to allow us to concede 2 goals? 

[thunderball]

A lot of cheap shots aimed at Wesley while we aren’t winning. It’s clearly a much more complex issue and scapegoating him is just lazy. No forward scores every match, and his support and service has been poor which magnifies his every touch, Saturday was no different, he was struggling with scraps and chasing his own opportunities. Along with every other player he makes several mistakes in a match but I don’t see them getting hounded down every game.

Despite the obvious disappointment at playing well but not picking up enough points, at least there are positives in this young side, a the start of the season. We didn’t have any positives the season we went down. I think it will click, it’s not far off, and a big January window is needed but I am sure Suso is well into that already.