Police state or the state of policing

[maqroll]

There is no use for Habeus Corpus in the New World Order...

Nobody is safe, in fact, this very thread is probably on a watch list

click

[Ads]

Surely you cannot just bring anything into a country in a diplomatic bag?!

[snowychap]

Further to the Pussy Riot chat in the General Chat thread, here's Marseille for ya:

Pussy Riot protesters arrested in Marseille

Several people protesting peacefully in Marseille against the trial of the Russian punk band Pussy Riot were detained by police for wearing balaclavas, under France's controversial law that bans Muslim niqabs and all face-coverings from public places.

About 30 demonstrators gathered outside the Russian consulate in the southern French city on Friday to protest against the trial of members of the feminist group famous for wearing bright dresses and colourful balaclavas.

But police swooped on about seven wearing multicoloured face-masks in solidarity with the band, reported La Provence. Asked why the police had stopped the demonstrators who had been standing peacefully behind a banner about the power of poetry, a senior officer told the newspaper: "They are wearing balaclavas in a public space. It's illegal." He said the demonstrators would be questioned and a report written.

In April 2011, Nicolas Sarkozy's government introduced a law banning women from wearing the niqab, or full face-veil, in public places. To circumvent accusations that the law singled out Muslims, the bill was officially called the law against covering one's face in public places.

Special exemptions were created for motorcycle helmets or sports equipment such as fencing masks. There are also exemptions for people appearing in parades, celebrations or places of worship.

The Marseille protesters – including poets, a book editor, and a former culture official – who had removed their masks at police request, were put in a riot van and driven to the nearest police station amid cries of "Absurd!" and "Ridiculous!". They were released that afternoon. Under the law, the case can be referred to a local judge who can hand down a €150 fine, a citizenship course or both.

"We came here to defend freedom of expression in Russia and we find ourselves stopped by French police," one pensioner at the rally told the paper.

When three members of Pussy Riot were sentenced to two years in prison for hooliganism on Friday, France said the sentence was "disproportionate".

[Big_John_10]

Makes me feel completely powerless and really quite sad reading all this wiki leaks stuff.

At the end of the day if Assange does get extradited to America it would kick up a bit of storm but people would soon forget as x factor and football sex scandals receive more national press coverage than anything actually important.

Its disgusting that Bradley Manning has spent so much time in jail before receiving his trial. Again not much of it is reported, a man sits rotting in jail and the world just doesn't care, he will just be forgotten and these governments know that.

[snowychap]

Ah, the pathologist. The wonderful Freddy Patel.

He is no longer registered on the Home Office list of forensic pathologists, and has been suspended twice by the General Medical Council after being found guilty of conducting botched postmortems and falsifying his CV. In one case, Patel is suspected of having conducted an autopsy on the wrong body.

Now struck off.

[chrisp65]

Ah, the pathologist. The wonderful Freddy Patel.

He is no longer registered on the Home Office list of forensic pathologists, and has been suspended twice by the General Medical Council after being found guilty of conducting botched postmortems and falsifying his CV. In one case, Patel is suspected of having conducted an autopsy on the wrong body.

Now struck off.

they quoted on the radio earlier that the fee for carrying out a postmortem at the time was £87.80 and the attitude had been 'waht do you expect for 87 quid, but that's recently been raised to £94

you do wonder how much more than a quick look at the bodywork and a bit of tyre kicking can be achieved for less than £100

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

you do wonder how much more than a quick look at the bodywork and a bit of tyre kicking can be achieved for less than £100

I think it really depends on who is on the slab, I suggest if it was a Police Officer that had been murdered during a riot or similar the treatment and assessment of the dead body would be more like the testing and care of a Alien in area 52 tended around the clock until they got the answer to the question they need for a confiction. Normal person, the tyre kicking example is probably as much as we could ever hope for, if we died at the hands of the old bill, any bin bag will do and **** it in the skip outside.

[theboyangel]

you do wonder how much more than a quick look at the bodywork and a bit of tyre kicking can be achieved for less than £100

I think it really depends on who is on the slab, I suggest if it was a Police Officer that had been murdered during a riot or similar the treatment and assessment of the dead body would be more like the testing and care of a Alien in area 52 tended around the clock until they got the answer to the question they need for a confiction. Normal person, the tyre kicking example is probably as much as we could ever hope for, if we died at the hands of the old bill, any bin bag will do and **** it in the skip outside.

what utter small minded shite.... :shock:

[Jon]

you do wonder how much more than a quick look at the bodywork and a bit of tyre kicking can be achieved for less than £100

I think it really depends on who is on the slab, I suggest if it was a Police Officer that had been murdered during a riot or similar the treatment and assessment of the dead body would be more like the testing and care of a Alien in area 52 tended around the clock until they got the answer to the question they need for a confiction. Normal person, the tyre kicking example is probably as much as we could ever hope for, if we died at the hands of the old bill, any bin bag will do and **** it in the skip outside.

what utter small minded shite.... :shock:

Was about to say the complete opposite. I think Neil makes some highly valid and pertinent points here.

They wouldn't have got the 'dodgy doc' in to do the autopsy had it been a copper who had died amonsgt the fracas. No Sireee.

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

what utter small minded shite.... Shocked

The brainwashed majority speaks... Well done.

[tonyh29]

not sure where else to put it but the inquest for Mark Duggan started today

Police are saying he "had a loaded gun" at the time he was shot by them

the family of course maintain he was "assassinated"

be interesting to watch this one develop

[peterms]

not sure where else to put it but the inquest for Mark Duggan started today

Police are saying he "had a loaded gun" at the time he was shot by them

I don't think they are, if you mean "had a loaded gun on him" rather than "was the owner of a gun".

The police are now saying he was given a loaded gun 15 minutes before they shot him (here).

I think everyone accepts as a simple fact that he did not have a gun when he was shot, including the police. The report says the court was told a gun "was found nearby".

[tonyh29]

think everyone accepts as a simple fact that he did not have a gun when he was shot, including the police.

the article i read stated

The jury heard that the handgun allegedly supplied by Mr Hutchinson-Foster was found near the spot where Mr Duggan was shot

I guess the definition of "near the spot" could be the key here

if it was in the same room arguably he could have been a threat .. if it was buried in the back garden in a tin box beneath 6 inches of topsoil then that is a different matter

EDIT :

your article loaded now so I see he was in a cab at the time he was shot , something I wasn't aware of previously ( I was in China when it happened in my defence :-) )

[mjmooney]

Two police officers killed in Tameside attack as Dale Cregan arrested

Two female police officers have died during a "routine" call-out which led to the arrest of a man wanted by Greater Manchester Police.

Police said both unarmed officers suffered fatal injuries during the incident in Hattersley, Tameside.

A witness at the scene in Abbey Gardens reported hearing 13 gunshots and an explosion.

Dale Cregan, 29, has been arrested in connection with the officers' deaths and two previous murders.

He was arrested when he walked into Hyde police station a short time after the incident.

Police said one of the officers died at the scene and the second was critically injured and died afterwards.

The scene has been cordoned off and there is a heavy police presence in the area, including a bomb disposal team.

The witness who described the shots, a window cleaner who worked in the area, said the property the officers were called to had been unoccupied for some months.

Assistant Chief Constable Garry Shewan said it was "a tragic day" for Greater Manchester Police.

"A long and dark shadow has been cast across Greater Manchester and my thoughts are with the officers' families, friends and colleagues.

"We will be doing everything we can to support them over the coming days and weeks."

The BBC's North of England reporter Danny Savage said he had spoken to an eyewitness who said they saw a police car outside shortly after 10:15 BST.

"After that car had drawn up it seems that the two unarmed police officers inside the car went into the property which had stood empty for some months," he said.

"Whilst they were inside around a dozen shots were fired and there was an explosion."

He added: "There were gunshots fired, possibly a hand grenade as well - that appears to be the suggestions at the moment.

"Those police officers didn't come out of the house again, the police car was left outside with its lights flashing but empty. Emergency services and colleagues were soon here offering assistance."

Prime Minister David Cameron said the killing was "a shocking reminder of the debt we owe to those who put themselves in danger to keep us safe and secure".

Home Secretary Theresa May said: "This is a deeply shocking incident and a terrible reminder of the risks that police officers face every day to keep our communities safe."

Shadow home secretary Yvette Cooper said it was "deeply distressing news [and] a painful demonstration of how police officers put themselves in harm's way every day to protect the public".

Witness Warren Sheppard was up a ladder cleaning the windows of a house nearby when the shooting happened.

He said: "I heard about 10 shots quite close, bang, bang, bang, like that. I knew they were gunshots because sometimes there is clay pigeon shooting in the fields.

"I heard a big explosion about 10 seconds after the shots. I got off the ladder, walked round, saw an empty police car.

This is arguably the blackest day in the history of the police service of England and Wales since three police officers were shot dead in west London in 1966.

One of the killers, Harry Roberts, is still in jail. It's believed to be the first time that two female officers have been killed in the same incident in the line of duty anywhere in the UK.

It provides a reminder - after the damage to the police's reputation from the Hillsborough report and the Simon Harwood case - of the unpredictable and dangerous nature of their work.

The shootings will inevitably spark a debate about whether police should have greater personal protection.

They now routinely carry CS or pepper spray, and Tasers are also widely available. However, it seems there's little appetite for routinely arming the police.

A Police Federation survey, conducted in 2006, of 47,000 officers found that 82% were opposed to the idea.

A 27-year-old woman, who did not want to be named, said her ex-boyfriend witnessed the shootings.

She said he was walking back from the doctor's when he heard a man, believed to be the owner of the house where the incident took place, shout to him.

"Someone has come outside the house... and shot two officers and then he threw a grenade in the garden," she said.

The police flag at Greater Manchester Police headquarters has been lowered to half mast.

President of the Association of Chief Police Officers Sir Hugh Orde said the deaths of the two officers were "deeply sad news for the police service".

"Whenever police officers and staff lose a colleague that loss is felt right across the police family," he said.

"The thoughts of everyone in policing are with colleagues in Greater Manchester Police, family and friends of the two officers at this time."

Police had been offering a £25,000 reward for information leading to Mr Cregan's arrest as he was wanted over attacks that left a father and son dead.

ACC Shewan said Mr Cregan had also been arrested on suspicion of two counts of murder in relation to the investigations into the deaths of David Short and Mark Short.

David Short was killed in a gun and grenade attack in Clayton on 10 August.

His son, Mark, was killed in a pub shooting at the Cotton Tree Pub in Droylsden in May.

BBC

[CI]

Grenade attack ? Jeez

[Xela]

Awful news. Shows how dangerous the job can be.. two young officers went to work in the morning and will never see their families again. Tragic.

[BOF]

I think that neighbourhood needs to be renamed, stat.

[CI]

Awful news. Shows how dangerous the job can be.. two young officers went to work in the morning and will never see their families again. Tragic.

Dangerous unpleasant job. RIP to them both.

[snowychap]

not sure where else to put it but the inquest for Mark Duggan started today

Police are saying he "had a loaded gun" at the time he was shot by them

I don't think they are, if you mean "had a loaded gun on him" rather than "was the owner of a gun".

The police are now saying he was given a loaded gun 15 minutes before they shot him (here).

I think everyone accepts as a simple fact that he did not have a gun when he was shot, including the police. The report says the court was told a gun "was found nearby".

That's not the claim the prosecution in this case are making.

The beeb report (updated 3.22 pm) now has the following:

Mr Brown said Mr Duggan travelled by minicab to the area where a girlfriend of the defendant lived to collect the gun, which was hidden in a shoebox.

After the handover, Mr Duggan carried on towards Tottenham Hale with the gun, taking it out at some point during the journey, the court was told.

"It was not long into this second part of his journey that the minicab with Mark Duggan inside was stopped by police.

Kevin Hutchinson-Foster Blood from Kevin Hutchinson-Foster was found on the gun, according to prosecutors

"There in Ferry Lane Mark Duggan was shot and fatally injured by the police as a result of his possession of that gun and what he was thought to be about to do with it," Mr Brown said.

He told the jury that armed police surrounded the cab but as Mr Duggan got out he was seen to have a gun in his hand.

"The police marksmen were in no doubt that this was as dangerous a position as possible - gun in hand - and he was seen to start to bring it round as if to shoot.

"The gun was found to be loaded with a bullet, as you know and as you will see in photographs. He was shot."

The court heard the gun, a BBM Bruni Model 92 handgun with one bullet in it, was found near the scene of the shooting.

Have the IPCC actually announced their findings with regard to this? I don't think so.

I found this report from The Grauniad at the end of June about exchanges between the Coroner and the IPCC:

A coroner has threatened the Independent Police Complaints Commission with contempt of court for refusing to hand over material relating to their investigation into the police shooting of Mark Duggan.

In angry exchanges with the barrister for the police watchdog, the north London coroner, Andrew Walker, said he was no closer to establishing whether an inquest could take place than he was earlier this year.

He ordered the IPCC to hand over the evidence they had gathered during their 10-month inquiry within 28 days or face being in contempt of court.

"I am being told, if I understand it correctly, that I am not being given copies of the statements and evidence [the IPCC] have gathered until they choose to give it," said Walker, adding that he found this extraordinary.

"My statutory obligation is being undermined, is that not a contempt of court?" he said.

It is understood that the only material to have been handed to the coroner so far is the initial statements taken from members of CO19, the Metropolitan police's armed response unit, who were involved in the fatal shooting on 4 August last year.

...

Robin Tam QC, for the IPCC, told the coroner it would be dangerous not to hand over the information in one file.

"The investigation being conducted by the IPCC is very complex, probably the most complex they have ever had to deal with and in very high-profile circumstances," he said.

He cited that, and the fact that "significant evidence" – thought to be the BBC footage – had just come to light, as two of the reasons why the IPCC has refused to comply with requests for disclosure as the investigation progressed.

He said he could not give a hard date for when the inquiry would be completed, but insisted that partial disclosure "would be dangerous for a proper understanding of the case".

Neither the coroner nor the family can initiate contempt proceedings, but they can make representations to the attorney general.

The CO19 officers who shot Duggan have refused to be interviewed and have instead provided statements about the killing. The inquest was initially delayed until after autumn in order for criminal proceedings against a man accused of handing the gun to Duggan to be completed.

It was relisted for January but if the IPCC delayed its release of the information that may also have to be abandoned, the coroner warned.

So it would appear that the IPCC have been dragging their feet (not helped by the Beeb in one circumstance), have told the coroner that it's a very complex investigation and that partial disclosure would be dangerous regarding understanding of what happened but at the same time a court is being given an account of the events on that day (which I'd assume was what was represented in the initial statements of the armed officers) in the trial of the person accused of giving him the gun.

[coda]

The double shooting in Manchester is strange. The police say they were lured there by the gunman (or a friend) and he then handed himself in at the local station. WTF.