New forward needed in January?

[Philosopher]

We either sign a striker to compete with Wesley, which anyone in the 15 to 30 mill bracket would be. Or we sign a striker MEANT to be better than him, which would be in the 40 mill plus bracket. Or we sign a striker that is ACTUALLY better than him which is 60 mill plus. So for me the first option or the latter are preferable.

[Philosopher]

I would like Bowen, he can really finish,  has shown great consistency, and left footed too which is nice. But I think we are looking at more of a striker than winger, and if we go for a winger it will be more of a playmaker type winger.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Philosopher

[mikeyp102]

3 hours ago, Philosopher said:

I would like Bowen, he can really finish,  has shown great consistency, and left footed too which is nice. But I think we are looking at more of a striker than winger, and if we go for a winger it will be more of a playmaker type winger.

He’d be great for us. Would suit our style well. Been saying that a while. 

Listening to VillaView, Greg Evans the journalist seems to think we are after a winger more than striker. Personally I think it’ll be someone who can do both

[TheStagMan]

On 05/11/2019 at 09:24, fightoffyour said:

Better!

[TheStagMan]

5 hours ago, Philosopher said:

I would like Bowen, he can really finish,  has shown great consistency, and left footed too which is nice. But I think we are looking at more of a striker than winger, and if we go for a winger it will be more of a playmaker type winger.

And we get "Super, Smashing, Great" to go with Marvellous 

[TRO]

On 06/11/2019 at 01:32, A'Villan said:

I think you've done a good job at explaining yourself throughout, I perhaps didn't absorb the message as well as I could before replying.

I didn't want to ignore your post but was also preoccupied organising people for a basketball tournament and explaining the ins and outs to them when I made that post.

All that aside, I'm still not sure my post did miss the mark. I would of given up Benteke any day for a team that brought us greater success on a whole.

And this is where my confusion lies and I wonder if we are talking at each other rather than with, I am not disputing a striker who ultimately wins games is what we want.

All I'm saying is that as long as the team is creating and executing well enough, and the striker employed contributes adequately to that, I could care less how much glory he takes.

If you want a striker who's goals come at a time that give this team glory in any given match, that's fine. If you want one that scores consistently every game, so does everyone else.

I think Van Nistelrooy, or someone of notable achievement, said, "Goals are like a bottle of ketchup, nothing comes no matter how hard you try, and then it all comes at once"

Something to that effect.

Anyway, I'm not a huge Wes fan, I just don't buy into the idea that he is a weak link just yet. Nor that he is occupying the position we need most improvement in.

If you think i am talking "at you" I apologise as i have always found your posts generous to your recipient.

Your response is better late than never.

I accept we all have different views on these things, when we explain our thoughts and lay them out on the table....it just helps others understand our thinking, whether they think we are right or wrong.

I understand the thoughts of Van Nistleroy and furthermore a top striker once told me how he laughed when a journalist described one of his goals saying the accuracy was predetermined.....He said to me " I just aim in the general direction of the goal"

Too much is made of goals in that sense, but I agree its not easy to get a goal when you want one, otherwise, Liverpool would not have waited 87 minutes.

I was making a very general point of a striker scoring consistently as opposed to just adding numbers to a table.....some appear high on these lists based on a glut of penalties, which in my mind also requires special consideration, when lauding a striker.

Edited November 7, 2019 by TRO

[TRO]

8 hours ago, Philosopher said:

We either sign a striker to compete with Wesley, which anyone in the 15 to 30 mill bracket would be. Or we sign a striker MEANT to be better than him, which would be in the 40 mill plus bracket. Or we sign a striker that is ACTUALLY better than him which is 60 mill plus. So for me the first option or the latter are preferable.

problem is.....Sebastian Haller is twice the fee and no better, so far IMO

If it was only that simple.......Nicholas Pepe 70 odd mill......enough to to make you search for a bridge with a rope in hand.

There are a number of examples for cheap buys......Vardy- Callum Wilson and more.

Its about prudent scouting...Watching games , not just video's and goal scoring charts.

Edited November 7, 2019 by TRO

[KenjiOgiwara]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

problem is.....Sebastian Haller is twice the fee and no better, so far IMO

If it was only that simple.......Nicholas Pepe 70 odd mill......enough to to make you search for a bridge with a rope in hand.

There are a number of examples for cheap buys......Vardy- Callum Wilson and more.

Its about prudent scouting...Watching games , not just video's and goal scoring charts.

Not sure what matches you've watched to conclude that, but Haller has looked a LOT better I'd say. 

Either way that's to be expected. 

[TRO]

8 hours ago, Philosopher said:

I would like Bowen, he can really finish,  has shown great consistency, and left footed too which is nice. But I think we are looking at more of a striker than winger, and if we go for a winger it will be more of a playmaker type winger.

I would go for Bowen.....not just to satify this subject.......just overall strenghening of the squad.

He scores too consistently to be hit and miss......The boy really has something.

[TRO]

50 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Not sure what matches you've watched to conclude that, but Haller has looked a LOT better I'd say. 

Either way that's to be expected. 

Its called an  Opinion.

Edited November 7, 2019 by TRO

[Philosopher]

8 minutes ago, TRO said:

problem is.....Sebastian Haller is twice the fee and no better, so far IMO

If it was only that simple.......Nicholas Pepe 70 odd mill......enough to to make you search for a bridge with a rope in hand.

There are a number of examples for cheap buys......Vardy- Callum Wilson and more.

Its about prudent scouting...Watching games , not just video's and goal scoring charts.

Yes which I why I would prefer to spend more than 40 mill, like I said meant to be better but often not. Callum Wilson would be in the 60 mill bracket, almost a sure fire improvement. 

Or less than than that 40mill bracket so long as the proper scouting and information has been gathered.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Philosopher

[KentVillan]

18 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

It really isn't and that's obvious to anyone. 

He might get there, but saying he's good at it now is just taking the piss. Genuinly makes me wonder if you have seen strikers that are good at it. 

It doesn't genuinely make you wonder that, though, does it - given that you know I've watched players like Carew and Heskey and would logically assume that I've also watched players like Drogba, etc.? You're just being provocative, as per.

Watch Wesley's hold-up play against Everton, Norwich, even in passages of the Liverpool game. He is extremely strong, and he brings down the long ball well under pressure. He is also a decent passer of the ball, with good awareness of who's around him. These are all the attributes you'd expect of a good hold-up player.

Wesley definitely hasn't done it with 100% consistency, and he has had several very poor games. He has also had some problems with refereeing decisions not going his way, usually as he is bringing the ball down - either he gets an obvious push in the back and "dives" or he is penalised for holding off the defender legitimately with his arms. But I think it was a pretty fair comment that hold-up play is one of his strengths. He would absolutely tear up the Championship, and I think we will see him do some serious damage to a few of our relegation rivals.

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, Philosopher said:

Yes which I why I would prefer to spend more than 40 mill, like I said meant to be better but often not. Callum Wilson would be in the 60 mill bracket, almost a sure fire improvement. 

Or less than than that 40mill bracket so long as the proper scouting and information has been gathered.

Not when he was at Coventry he wasn't or Maddison for that matter.

my point was.....where are/were our scouts, these guys was under our nose at one time.

[KentVillan]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

Not when he was at Coventry he wasn't or Maddison for that matter.

my point was.....where are/were our scouts, these guys was under our nose at one time.

I mean you could say that about any successful investment. For every Wilson or Maddison there are quite a few Freddy Adus.

[Philosopher]

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

Not when he was at Coventry he wasn't or Maddison for that matter.

my point was.....where are/were our scouts, these guys was under our nose at one time.

My point is if we want an INSTANT improvement on Wesley we have to put our money where our mouth is. Maddison and Wilson took time to get to their current level after leaving Coventry.

 

[TRO]

1 minute ago, KentVillan said:

It doesn't genuinely make you wonder that, though, does it - given that you know I've watched players like Carew and Heskey and would logically assume that I've also watched players like Drogba, etc.? You're just being provocative, as per.

Watch Wesley's hold-up play against Everton, Norwich, even in passages of the Liverpool game. He is extremely strong, and he brings down the long ball well under pressure. He is also a decent passer of the ball, with good awareness of who's around him. These are all the attributes you'd expect of a good hold-up player.

Wesley definitely hasn't done it with 100% consistency, and he has had several very poor games. He has also had some problems with refereeing decisions not going his way, usually as he is bringing the ball down - either he gets an obvious push in the back and "dives" or he is penalised for holding off the defender legitimately with his arms. But I think it was a pretty fair comment that hold-up play is one of his strengths. He would absolutely tear up the Championship, and I think we will see him do some serious damage to a few of our relegation rivals.

I think you are right.

Wes shows good promise at some things and a deficit at others....He is still 22 and much to learn....We all hope that learning process has much improvement (for Wes) in it.

He is work in progress.....whether that is  a shock for some fans and they was expecting the finished article, I don't Know.....that could be influencing their frustration and subsequently, judgement.

FWIW....I think he will eventually be a good player.

However, I do not pocess scouting skills, so its difficult for a fan like me to predict his outcome.....but if I was a betting man, I think he will come good.

would I sell him......definately not.

[TRO]

38 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

I mean you could say that about any successful investment. For every Wilson or Maddison there are quite a few Freddy Adus.

I accept that....doesn't help my frustration.

I guess, its because its so close geographically.....could add Sturridge too.

Edited November 7, 2019 by TRO

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, Philosopher said:

My point is if we want an INSTANT improvement on Wesley we have to put our money where our mouth is. Maddison and Wilson took time to get to their current level after leaving Coventry.

 

I am not saying you are wrong by the way.

just as nervous as **** of spending Huge sums.....If the don't work out, clubs like Liverpool and Man Utd have a decent record of unloading them.....in contrast ours usually get fully amortised.

We have not had the best of records or experience of doing so.

[Philosopher]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

I am not saying you are wrong by the way.

just as nervous as **** of spending Huge sums.....If the don't work out, clubs like Liverpool and Man Utd have a decent record of unloading them.....in contrast ours usually get fully amortised.

We have not had the best of records or experience of doing so.

Like you said scouting and referencing, for EVERY signing is needed. I remember when we signed Bent, I was happy at the statement and under Houillier he was good, but u always felt he wasn't the right fit under MON and a luxury for us after Houillier left, and that was exactly the case.

[TRO]

11 minutes ago, Philosopher said:

Like you said scouting and referencing, for EVERY signing is needed. I remember when we signed Bent, I was happy at the statement and under Houillier he was good, but u always felt he wasn't the right fit under MON and a luxury for us after Houillier left, and that was exactly the case.

He was predatory, but had no forward work rate in him.

trying to get complete players or near complete is very hard,I Know.