Ratings & Reactions: Spurs v Villa

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

15 hours ago, AVTuco said:

Nothing poor in the result, but no matter who we play in this league, or any league: it would be nice to get out of our zone a couple times in the second half too. Or string three passes together. Or keep possession for more than 10 seconds. I think that's what people are saying. Well, I am at least.

 

2nd Half we gave it away in the same place on the pitch 3 times in quick succession. 

You really can't get away with that in the Prem,  it was just sloppy play and a lack of concentration.  But,  it happened to a lot bigger teams than us over the weekend.

Good 1st game,  lot's to build on and lot's of positives.  We could have easily, on another day got done by 7 or even held on for a draw.  I'm happy so far after game 1 for as much as that can tell us.

 

[terrytini]

[Stevo985]

1 minute ago, terrytini said:

The most lethal arse in football  

[terrytini]

On 10/08/2019 at 21:28, TRO said:

Dean seemed to know where our shortfalls are and it was plain to see....I thought for 70 minutes we frustrated them, even though our shortfalls were clear to see.

it summed it up for me when Harry kane said in an interview, he has played with Eriksen for 6 years.

It will take time to improve,to the next level, we have to understand that.

This season will require a Lot of patience from us.

Well said mate.

[Stevo985]

Ultimately I think two things turned the game.

The introduction of one of the best creative midfielders in the world, and our tiredness.

None of which particularly worry me.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Raver50032 said:

Heaton was my MOTM. I won't comment much about the game, because whichever side of the fence I am on, I'm going to fall foul of the 'give your head a wobble' finger wagging that is so prevalent on both sides and I don't really want to fall into the trap. I can't be arsed to argue the toss with any of you. You don't have to quote me... you don't have to hash-tag me... just shake your head, disagree if you want to and move along. You won't change my mind, and I don't intend to try and change yours with an endless exchange of wasted keyboard minutes.   

All I feel that I need to say is, I always looked at this game as a 'free hit.' Never expected a win, and for the 'first day nerves' that I hoped Spurs would suffer (they did suffer some sort of lack of sharpness) and the 'plucky newcomer surprise package' that I hoped Villa would be, I thought a draw was the best I could hope for prior to the game. I prayed that we wouldn't get spanked too hard. I guess we could have lost 4-1 like Norwich did, or even 4-0 like Chelsea. But yay, we're only down to 15th on goal difference...

I don't expect instant results - especially not against Clubs like Spurs, United or Liverpool, but I don't expect it to take months to gel the team either. I would be quite disheartened if we didn't see ANY points at all in August. The narrative from the Club this summer is that this is a 'great bunch of lads' who are all friends and everything will be fine and we can't wait to get cracking... So I'm not having any of the 'it will take time' stuff I'm seeing either. These are all players that Smith seemed to want at the Club... and looking at the transfer threads, we as supporters wanted/accepted too. It was the 'PERFECT' transfer window, no? I enjoyed it, though felt we should have pressed home with another striker... but Kodjia seems to be the egg in the basket.

As it happens, I can't feel 'proud' of a set of players that lose three goals in seventeen minutes. That second half... really was disappointing whether as a hopeful supporter, a blind-faith deluded supporter or even just a humble realist supporter. Unless I'm expected to be 'proud' that they kept the score down? Could easily have been 6. You're all quite within your rights to disagree of course, but I feel it's akin to lying to oneself if that can't be seen. There was some positive counter attacking that led to our goal, and to another pretty decent chance... There was some fine goalkeeping (the rush of blood outside the area Heaton Header not withstanding). There were particular moments of defensive excellence, and I have every faith in Mings and Engels.

But, it is possible to acknowledge that the team defended resolutely (and rode their luck a fair bit) without being 'proud.' It's possible to feel disappointed with something, even when it was always possible/likely that we would taste defeat. I was disappointed with what actually happened, as I am sure Smith will be. He even said that the plan for the second half wasn't followed (or words to that effect on Villa's YouTube channel post match).

I'm hopeful for the season, but I'm realistic. I'm not in a panic, but I'm not going to frivolously blow smoke up the team's arse either. If our support is 'proud' of the team for that overall performance, what will they be when we finally earn a draw or a even a win against a team like Spurs? Where is the wriggle room? I'm not losing any poop over it... just an observation.   

There were concerning things about the match, as were there a number of positives. If Villa can wake up and learn the many lessons they were taught by Tottenham Hotspur, then I have every faith that our own Club will be fine. In Smith I trust... UTV.

--

Good to hear the travelling Villa fans in decent voice.

 

interesting post......I think that is fair comment,and like you, I think the gaffer will be eager to work on it.

Its very hard to say this in view of the massive contribution he has made so far.....but I think Jack's dwelling for Kane's goal, disappointed many fans, in the quietness of their own mind.

I think Jack will be having a word with Jack at BMH Monday morning.

[Teale's 'tache]

I think it was a pretty difficult performance to appraise, there was some good and some bad which is maybe why there's such a division in the posts on here.

I feel some of the criticism has been a little harsh, there's going to be a learning curve in the Premier League for a number of our players, and also Dean Smith.

We really need to keep the ball better against the big teams though, I think Jack should be left up field with Wesley to give us an out ball when we are under that much pressure, we need someone clever on the ball who can win us a free kick and relieve the pressure, or good enough on the ball to keep it and spark a counter, he's far more suited to that roll than playing as a defensive midfielder which he seemed to be doing for the majority of the second half. Spurs were very happy to see him forced back that deep where he couldn't hurt them.

It was pretty clear our full backs didn't want to cross the halfway line, this left our wingers a little isolated with nobody overlapping them, I was still expecting El Ghazi to get something out of Walker-Peters down our left hand side but he had a really poor game I thought, and fair play to Walker-Peters he looked very solid.

Spurs did a very good job second half of isolating our players with their press and winning possession back quickly and high up the pitch so we just couldn't get out, and we had no real answer to it.

Spurs weren't amazing by all accounts, but improved as the game went on and the Eriksen substitution really was the difference, our midfield had been ground down by then and we were sitting so deep it was perfectly set up for him to run the show, how amazing would it be to have a player that good on our bench?!

I thought Engels looked really good, his partnership with Mings looks very solid and definitely something we can build around going forward, the defence showed they can drop in for large periods if required which we will need at times this season, it's something we haven't had too much recent experience of in the Championship so they way we stood firm bodes well.

In the end we just didn't hold on to the ball well enough and made too many mistakes, eventually you will get punished for them against a team that contains Harry Kane and the like.

I'm not disheartened, but we have some work to do, I think Dean Smith will be able to take a lot from that game going forward and formulate a few new game plans.

UTV!

 

Edited August 12, 2019 by Teale's 'tache
missed a word

[Vive_La_Villa]

Just watched the second goal again. Jack has so much time to get rid it but that aside there was a ridiculous amount of luck for the way it bounced to Kane. Fair play for the finish though. 

[CarryOnVilla]

This was a tough game to watch.
We were battered for large chunks of the game, and under pressure at all times. Spurs didn't give us anything, we had to work our tits off for anything, more so in the second half. I feel we mainly lost to mental fatigue, those last 20 minutes got really sloppy. But on the whole, I feel as a defensive showcase we where decent. Mings and Engels showed a good account of themselves, so did Heaton and Taylor. 

I was hoping in this game we'd show a better example of our attacking qualities. Yet Spurs pressing game did us over most of the game. We were limited in chances and we didn't do much with them. Trez showed positive signs and I feel he has a lot more to offer. It was great to get a goal, even more so from Mcginn. 

I was watching this game with a Spurs fan and most of game he was rather frustrated that we holding Spurs off to poor chances, despite how well they were playing. He was impressed by Mings and stated he's expecting him to be in an England shirt sometime soon. He thought we where a decent team, caught out with the pace of the prem. He thinks we'll catch up and survive with comfort   

[terrytini]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

Ultimately I think two things turned the game.

The introduction of one of the best creative midfielders in the world, and our tiredness.

None of which particularly worry me.

Nailed it.

[terrytini]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

interesting post......I think that is fair comment,and like you, I think the gaffer will be eager to work on it.

Its very hard to say this in view of the massive contribution he has made so far.....but I think Jack's dwelling for Kane's goal, disappointed many fans, in the quietness of their own mind.

I think Jack will be having a word with Jack at BMH Monday morning.

Must admit it didn’t disappoint me.

I understand the view, and the need to always review and improve, but I wasn’t disappointed.

Id liken it to Kevin Pietersen getting out to a poorly played reverse sweep. It’s part and parcel of the exact same gift we profit from. There have been countless times he’s done exactly the same and I’ve cheered him for his composure and been delighted how it’s enabled us to break forward.

I’d add that given the occasion, and the battering we had begun to take, a split second mental failure was not surprising.

Could he have done better ? Yes, and he usually does, and I hope he continues the exact same way.

Fwiw I WAS disappointed with the failure of Luiz to even get close to trying to snuffing out the danger that followed immediately....although I haven’t seen the TV version yet so maybe that’s harsh.

[chrisvilla4]

2 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

The most lethal arse in football  

Sponsored by Balti pies...

[Pelle]

They have a team that has played together for a rather long time at the highest level. Even if it wasn't thheir absolute best 11 most of them have still played and trained together for several years. And the new signing who scored for them cost a lot more than ours. But what really showed how much better squad they have is that we brought on Jota, Kodija and Luiz, they brought on Christian Eriksen, one of the most wanted attacking midfielders in the world. And at a time when were getting tired.

Anyway, before the game I was hoping for us to hit the ground running and that they would have a bad day, maybe underrate us a little so that we maybe we could nick a point or 3. There have been bigger upsets in the league. A part of me hoped that we wouldn't get spanked like norwich, and part of me worried that we would be like wham earlier on that day. So when we took the lead and held out for so long, defended really well in the first half added with some decent counter attacks I was quite pleased but with their pressure I feared that we would never hold up. And in the second half they put in the next gear. I don't think we sat back on and defended like that on purpose in the 2nd half. It was mostly down to them speeding up and really started to pull us from side to side wearing us out. We were chasing the ball all the time and the few times we got hold of it we were too tired to move to get it and with tired heads also comes bad decisions. And they put on a pressure that we couldn't stand up to.

There was a point around the 65th minute, though, that I started to get my hopes up. They had a poor finish from outside the penalty area from a position that wasn't that good. It felt like they were getting frustrated. And had that held on we could've got something. Then they brought on Eriksen and that hope vanished. And as soon as they scored the equaliser I knew we'd lose. Some teams scoring an eqauliser that late having been chasing the game for so long would've been pleased with that and lost some pace, but not the top teams against lower teams. They wanted more and I knew they would. Just a shame that it came from a poor mistake. But he'll learn from that.

So, postive points:

The defending. Not just from our 4 defenders and the keeper, but the whole team. Together they made it really hard for tottenham to get through and create good chances in the first half. And Engels and Mings played really well together. I've had my doubts about how they would play, but they stood up to this test very well.

We looked like we can be dangerous on the break. I don't want us to play counter attacking football, but in games like this one it's a very good weapon to have. We weren't perfect, but this was the first game of the season and that against a team that is about as good as they come. I think many of our players are good enough for this league, even though we were outplayed for most of the game.

And the more I look at it, we were robbed on a penalty. During the game I thought it was hard to see what really happened, but now I've seen some replays and yes, I think it's a penalty. Sanchez doesn't touch the ball, he gets in to McGinn and tumbles over him which brought McGinn down. Some say he fell over too easy, but I don't think he did. It doesn't look like a dive to me. And with VAR as help I can't see why it wasn't given. (Sidenote on VAR: I've been sceptic to it, but during this game it worked very well except for the outcome. It didn't take a long time for any of the two decisions. A thumb up.) Had it been in the other end of the pitch I have no doubts it would be given.

 

Worries:

Jota and Wesley. I acknowledged they had a difficult game but I still think they could've done better. It's never easy to come on as a sub like Jota did in a game where your team is under such a big pressure, but I still think he could've run more to show himself to get the ball and to keep it and keep passing it on. He gave away some very sloppy passes. Wesley wasn't that bad, he was very isolated, but I still hade higher hopes for him and I wonder if he's the natural striker we need. And to have Kodija as a backub isn't a sign of strength.

 

This was a wake up call for many fans and a few players, I think. And this game might show why Grealish isn't ahead of players like Alli in the pecking order for England. But I have no doubts that he'll be good enough to fit in this league and one day play for England. I think we'll survive, and next weekend we'll see how we really fair. I'm still excited.

And I had a great weekend in London with my friends and meeting "Just Alan" from VT. If he reads this he'll know.

[Philosopher]

All in all a solid A for effort, but a D for execution. 

The defense was good, Engels and Mings looks a solid partnership at this level. Taylor defended well and Elmo was decent. But ultimately I believe Taylor and Elmo will end up on the sidelines. Hourihane did well considering he is not a defensive midfielder, but will find himself back up for Jack and John (hopefully). Heaton is certainly a safe pair of hands.

Jack and John showed they are good enough at this this level but need to time to get to the level we all believe they're capable of (top 6 team quality). Wesley needs to learn fast, he needs to be more street wise, not a game for strikers. 

A tale of two wingers one good the other poor. Trezguet was strong, quick and smart (knowing when to run and when to keep it simple) finishing looked nervous. El Ghazi had one of his off days.

This level of performance is just about good enough to stay up. But I like most expect to see more. I am pleased with the performance when we consider the team certainly need at least 10 games to adjust to the new players and new league, preseason is not competitive matches. Throw in the fact this is not how we will look the play most of the time and the starting line up is what I would call a transitional one.

I think the manager, and players learnt a lot from that. It was a baptism of fire of sort.

Never happy with losing, never happy with throwing away a lead, but plenty of positives as well as negatives.

 

[VILLAMARV]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

interesting post......I think that is fair comment,and like you, I think the gaffer will be eager to work on it.

Its very hard to say this in view of the massive contribution he has made so far.....but I think Jack's dwelling for Kane's goal, disappointed many fans, in the quietness of their own mind.

I think Jack will be having a word with Jack at BMH Monday morning.

 

4 hours ago, Raver50032 said:

4 hours ago, Raver50032 said:

 I can't be arsed to argue the toss with any of you. You don't have to quote me... you don't have to hash-tag me... just shake your head, disagree if you want to and move along. You won't change my mind, and I don't intend to try and change yours with an endless exchange of wasted keyboard minutes.  

 

[rubberman]

1 hour ago, CarryOnVilla said:

I feel we mainly lost to mental fatigue, those last 20 minutes got really sloppy.

This is it for me.  Tiredness physically and mentally meant that every decision took a split second longer and we were caught on the ball or the pass intercepted.  Then more chasing, get more tired, rinse and repeat.  You could see it building through the second half with the inevitable result.

Everyone will have learnt from that and in some ways in the long term it could be better to have that up front than a softer start. Don't think anyone will be complacent about the challenge this season now, if they ever were.

[spineynorman]

1 hour ago, terrytini said:

Must admit it didn’t disappoint me.

I understand the view, and the need to always review and improve, but I wasn’t disappointed.

Id liken it to Kevin Pietersen getting out to a poorly played reverse sweep. It’s part and parcel of the exact same gift we profit from. There have been countless times he’s done exactly the same and I’ve cheered him for his composure and been delighted how it’s enabled us to break forward.

I’d add that given the occasion, and the battering we had begun to take, a split second mental failure was not surprising.

Could he have done better ? Yes, and he usually does, and I hope he continues the exact same way.

Fwiw I WAS disappointed with the failure of Luiz to even get close to trying to snuffing out the danger that followed immediately....although I haven’t seen the TV version yet so maybe that’s harsh.

Agree totally, especially on the excellent KP comparison and, to be fair, Jack was trying to keep the ball for more than 5 seconds which seemed beyond most of the team by that stage, as did stringing two passes together which, for me, was the most disappointing part of the performance. He could maybe have tried to go wider but it doesn't worry me.

Personally I'd rather have Davis than Wesley if we are down to clearing the lines and looking for someone to fight the centre back for it and maybe that's a better option than Kodjia for some away games in particular. In those games we are going to need a stronger defensive midfield, I think, and how that may need to change the shape of the team, I don't know but, if you can't get the ball out of your own penalty area for long periods and we are incapable of getting the ball to the wingers releasing the pressure, we may have to rethink the shape. Not a route I'd like as I'm a football romantic but pragmatism may need to be used unless our game management improves.

[Dale]

Watching back the replay... Clear foul on Grealish in run up to the goal, what is VAR for? 

Also, I think it wouldn't have been unreasonable for the jump on McGinn's back to have a penalty awarded... 

[TRO]

7 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Just watched the second goal again. Jack has so much time to get rid it but that aside there was a ridiculous amount of luck for the way it bounced to Kane. Fair play for the finish though. 

Ricochets are a feature of play of the top sides.....it is lucky, but they play the percentages game, they have the ball control/quick feet and use it......in the box its a killer as we have just found out.

George Best used to thrive on them....it was a feature of his game, why.......because he could.....and Mr Messi is a past master.

As we progress we will try and cope and eventually have our own players who can do it......John McGinn isn't a million miles away.

[TRO]

6 hours ago, Pelle said:

They have a team that has played together for a rather long time at the highest level. Even if it wasn't thheir absolute best 11 most of them have still played and trained together for several years. And the new signing who scored for them cost a lot more than ours. But what really showed how much better squad they have is that we brought on Jota, Kodija and Luiz, they brought on Christian Eriksen, one of the most wanted attacking midfielders in the world. And at a time when were getting tired.

Anyway, before the game I was hoping for us to hit the ground running and that they would have a bad day, maybe underrate us a little so that we maybe we could nick a point or 3. There have been bigger upsets in the league. A part of me hoped that we wouldn't get spanked like norwich, and part of me worried that we would be like wham earlier on that day. So when we took the lead and held out for so long, defended really well in the first half added with some decent counter attacks I was quite pleased but with their pressure I feared that we would never hold up. And in the second half they put in the next gear. I don't think we sat back on and defended like that on purpose in the 2nd half. It was mostly down to them speeding up and really started to pull us from side to side wearing us out. We were chasing the ball all the time and the few times we got hold of it we were too tired to move to get it and with tired heads also comes bad decisions. And they put on a pressure that we couldn't stand up to.

There was a point around the 65th minute, though, that I started to get my hopes up. They had a poor finish from outside the penalty area from a position that wasn't that good. It felt like they were getting frustrated. And had that held on we could've got something. Then they brought on Eriksen and that hope vanished. And as soon as they scored the equaliser I knew we'd lose. Some teams scoring an eqauliser that late having been chasing the game for so long would've been pleased with that and lost some pace, but not the top teams against lower teams. They wanted more and I knew they would. Just a shame that it came from a poor mistake. But he'll learn from that.

So, postive points:

The defending. Not just from our 4 defenders and the keeper, but the whole team. Together they made it really hard for tottenham to get through and create good chances in the first half. And Engels and Mings played really well together. I've had my doubts about how they would play, but they stood up to this test very well.

We looked like we can be dangerous on the break. I don't want us to play counter attacking football, but in games like this one it's a very good weapon to have. We weren't perfect, but this was the first game of the season and that against a team that is about as good as they come. I think many of our players are good enough for this league, even though we were outplayed for most of the game.

And the more I look at it, we were robbed on a penalty. During the game I thought it was hard to see what really happened, but now I've seen some replays and yes, I think it's a penalty. Sanchez doesn't touch the ball, he gets in to McGinn and tumbles over him which brought McGinn down. Some say he fell over too easy, but I don't think he did. It doesn't look like a dive to me. And with VAR as help I can't see why it wasn't given. (Sidenote on VAR: I've been sceptic to it, but during this game it worked very well except for the outcome. It didn't take a long time for any of the two decisions. A thumb up.) Had it been in the other end of the pitch I have no doubts it would be given.

 

Worries:

Jota and Wesley. I acknowledged they had a difficult game but I still think they could've done better. It's never easy to come on as a sub like Jota did in a game where your team is under such a big pressure, but I still think he could've run more to show himself to get the ball and to keep it and keep passing it on. He gave away some very sloppy passes. Wesley wasn't that bad, he was very isolated, but I still hade higher hopes for him and I wonder if he's the natural striker we need. And to have Kodija as a backub isn't a sign of strength.

 

This was a wake up call for many fans and a few players, I think. And this game might show why Grealish isn't ahead of players like Alli in the pecking order for England. But I have no doubts that he'll be good enough to fit in this league and one day play for England. I think we'll survive, and next weekend we'll see how we really fair. I'm still excited.

And I had a great weekend in London with my friends and meeting "Just Alan" from VT. If he reads this he'll know.

very good summaryIMO