Ratings & Reactions: Spurs v Villa

[TRO]

2 hours ago, lapal_fan said:

And 25 million of that was to buy Bournemouth's 4th choice centre back.

£150 spread over 12 players doesn't mean we've bought guaranteed quality.

even if we had the money....Guaranteed quality wouldn't come to us just yet.

We have to establish ourselves in the Prem' and and then our stock will rise and we can attract better quality individual player......its an incremental process of gradual improvement.....we are just starting out.

[MadridVilla]

Had time to mull over the result yesterday.

I have to say, I was very impressed by the performance and Villa seemed much quicker and incisive than they have done in the past, particularly last season they were far too slow. Ironically one of the only moments they reverted back to their slower ways was when Grealish was dispossessed on the edge of the box for their second goal.

Hard to judge the players based on one game against tough opposition, but they seem to be up to the level of the PL. Heaton, Engels, Mings, Taylor, McGinn, Hourihane and Trezeguet all were particularly good. Grealish went missing at times in the game and didn't exactly show his quality, I think perhaps the time and space he was afforded in the Championship is something he won't get against better teams and he needs to adapt his game to this. Didn't see too much of Wesley to make a judgement but I would guess he's going to take some time to settle in.

All in all it was probably a fair result as Spurs were the better side, but perhaps just a little annoying that we could've held on for a draw with better game management. It definitely gives me confidence above all else - I think we've got enough talent to win a few games this year.

[sharkyvilla]

3 hours ago, VillaCas said:

Some of the comments on this thread - i’d be ashamed for DS, the team or the owners to read some of this. 

I'm starting to think I shalln't be frequenting On Topic or the matchday thread very much again this season.

[AVTuco]

6 hours ago, VillaCas said:

Two points 1) “most thought” Jota was a stand out during pre-season so it’s not surprising DS gave him a run and 2) I would argue that the coaches who work with these players day in day out, have live performance monitoring data and can speak directly to the player have a better “opinion” than a fan watching on TV (or even watching live)

Not above criticism but I back the coaches to make a better decision on whether a 100% Kodija is better than a 80% (or 70% or whatever Wesley) than a fan can

Ok, so you actually do think so. Well, no use discussing then when the manager is always right.

[JoshVilla]

It sort of went as I expected, to be honest.

 

I was in dreamland when McGinn scored, but realistically, sitting back for the remainder of the game against last season's CL finalists is only really going to end one way. I do think we defended well in general but it obviously took a lot out of us and once the tank was empty Spurs took full advantage. It's a good eye opener for us - it demonstrates just how much sharper we need to be and what can happen if we don't look after the ball. 

 

Early signs are reasonably positive, I think. There's not going to be too many games as tough as that (though some tougher), and if we can match that game for effort then I think we'll be okay.

[AVTuco]

7 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

If we have this sort of result next week then I'd understand, but away to pretty much a nailed on top 4 side who got to the champions league final? No, not having it. There's this bizarre expectation that we would be able to go there and play really expansive football, but against a side who are far, far superior both in terms of athleticism and technique, I fail to see how that would be possible without getting annihilated. 

Nothing poor in the result, but no matter who we play in this league, or any league: it would be nice to get out of our zone a couple times in the second half too. Or string three passes together. Or keep possession for more than 10 seconds. I think that's what people are saying. Well, I am at least.

 

Edited August 11, 2019 by AVTuco

[villalad21]

Always liked Poch, top man.

 

[TRO]

19 hours ago, MadridVilla said:

Had time to mull over the result yesterday.

I have to say, I was very impressed by the performance and Villa seemed much quicker and incisive than they have done in the past, particularly last season they were far too slow. Ironically one of the only moments they reverted back to their slower ways was when Grealish was dispossessed on the edge of the box for their second goal.

Hard to judge the players based on one game against tough opposition, but they seem to be up to the level of the PL. Heaton, Engels, Mings, Taylor, McGinn, Hourihane and Trezeguet all were particularly good. Grealish went missing at times in the game and didn't exactly show his quality, I think perhaps the time and space he was afforded in the Championship is something he won't get against better teams and he needs to adapt his game to this. Didn't see too much of Wesley to make a judgement but I would guess he's going to take some time to settle in.

All in all it was probably a fair result as Spurs were the better side, but perhaps just a little annoying that we could've held on for a draw with better game management. It definitely gives me confidence above all else - I think we've got enough talent to win a few games this year.

14 x 3 =42 that will do....

Edited August 12, 2019 by TRO

[TRO]

2 hours ago, AVTuco said:

Nothing poor in the result, but no matter who we play in this league, or any league: it would be nice to get out of our zone a couple times in the second half too. Or string three passes together. Or keep possession for more than 10 seconds. I think that's what people are saying. Well, I am at least.

 

Its early days.....but to spend too much time patting ourselves on the back is misleading too.......We know what we have to do.

We need to fight in this league, for the ball.

Edited August 11, 2019 by TRO

[VillaCas]

3 hours ago, AVTuco said:

Ok, so you actually do think so. Well, no use discussing then when the manager is always right.

Not what I said. The argument was about whether Wesley and Trez were fatigued or not. Some posters felt from their armchair view that they were fine. The coaching staff, based on working with the players throughout pre-season, live performance tracking data and speaking to the players from the touch line felt they were struggling 

So, No, the manager is not infallible but in this particular instance I would imagine his view is more informed than yours

Edited August 11, 2019 by VillaCas

[HKP90]

9 hours ago, terrytini said:

If you’d said “ debate” I’d have agreed.

Debating the pros and cons of, for example, keeping some continuity, putting Elmo and a player he knows together, putting a left sided combination together, whilst giving newer signings time, is great. 

Saying “ he got it wrong” / “ why spend all that money then not play them”/ “ Taylor is shit” etc.......nah.

The words criticism and debate can be used interchangably. Criticism does not necessary imply negativity. 

I think that we played fairly well against far stronger opposition, and that not only was the result fairly positive, but also the resiliance we showed until the last 15 mins was extremely encouraging. The pace of the Prem is unrelenting, and Spurs have some top class players. Anything but a battering under the circumstances is a decent result. 

It was also a valuable lesson. They will all know now how unforgiving the Prem can be. It's easy to single out Jack for his mistake in hanging on to the ball in a dangerous area, but he was by no means the only one guilty of this, notably elmo in the opening exchanges, who gave the ball away carelessly which led to a shot on goal. All of this is part of us getting up to speed and integrating the new players into the team, and it will come. DS is a great coach, and will get to grips with this quickly I'm sure. 

That said, lets 'debate' why against a team as rampant as spurs, we played Hourahane instead of one our two DMs, or played Taylor (albeit who had an unusually decent game to be fair) ahead of Targett who has been playing in pre-season, and elmohamady over guilbert who again has been looking promising in pre-season. Don't give a fig about price tags now, that's all been talked to death, but in particular the fullbacks both looked an upgrade on last years personnel, so either DS thought they were off the pace (which didn't seem to manifest in pre-season) or there was some other reason. I don't buy that he was 'protecting the new/preferred players from a drubbing' that was mentioned on this site somewhere, because that shows a lack of ambition that I just cannot square with DS who seems driven. So it was some other reason that I just can't fathom.   

 

[terrytini]

1 minute ago, HKP90 said:

The words criticism and debate can be used interchangably. Criticism does not necessary imply negativity. 

I think that we played fairly well against far stronger opposition, and that not only was the result fairly positive, but also the resiliance we showed until the last 15 mins was extremely encouraging. The pace of the Prem is unrelenting, and Spurs have some top class players. Anything but a battering under the circumstances is a decent result. 

It was also a valuable lesson. They will all know now how unforgiving the Prem can be. It's easy to single out Jack for his mistake in hanging on to the ball in a dangerous area, but he was by no means the only one guilty of this, notably elmo in the opening exchanges, who gave the ball away carelessly which led to a shot on goal. All of this is part of us getting up to speed and integrating the new players into the team, and it will come. DS is a great coach, and will get to grips with this quickly I'm sure. 

That said, lets 'debate' why against a team as rampant as spurs, we played Hourahane instead of one our two DMs, or played Taylor (albeit who had an unusually decent game to be fair) ahead of Targett who has been playing in pre-season, and elmohamady over guilbert who again has been looking promising in pre-season. Don't give a fig about price tags now, that's all been talked to death, but in particular the fullbacks both looked an upgrade on last years personnel, so either DS thought they were off the pace (which didn't seem to manifest in pre-season) or there was some other reason. I don't buy that he was 'protecting the new/preferred players from a drubbing' that was mentioned on this site somewhere, because that shows a lack of ambition that I just cannot square with DS who seems driven. So it was some other reason that I just can't fathom.   

 

Criticism most certainly can be positive, I agree. 

I prefer the term debate on the internet though as criticism tends to be more often shorthand for something negative.

Totally agree with the next two paragraphs.

In the 3rd you ask to debate a couple of things....and ( mercifully) want to exclude price tags.

So taking your points in order, 

Hourahane instead of one our two DMs,................my view is because if you mean Marvelous and Luiz, it’ll be

1:because Smith thought there was no way either would be ready to simultaneously debut, meet Spurs, and become familiar with their team mates. 

2: he wanted to make the absolute minimum necessary changes to last years line up at this stage, calculating that familiarity would trump the possible extra ability,

3: unlike some fans ( me included) he has a lot of faith in CH in that role.

 

Then to save space I’d say pretty much the same reasons for Taylor and  Elmo, although “ minus” the bit about debuts, as Targett and Guilbert were reasonably settled , but including instead partnerships with the guys in front of them.

Thats how I see it. I was chatting to a guy before kick off who had similar queries as you and that was my view.

I have to say, in my view, riptide was the right choices, and it nearly worked.

The performance of Jota perhaps illustrated what he was guarding against ?

In my view the failure of the Subs to perform adequately was the real problem....all three were very poor indeed.

 

 

 

 

[Hornso]

It was coming the entire 2nd half wasn't it. Just getting deeper and deeper and deeper. Looking at the positives I thought Mings & Engels had a very good partnership and Trezeguet was impressive on debut also. Biggest disappointment for me was El Ghazi, whilst I was also disappointed with Kodjia off the bench. Did not hold the ball up at all. 

Overall, we didn't disgrace ourselves and games like Tottenham away aren't going to decide whether we are relegated or not. Bournemouth at home on the other hand is one where we'll be expected to at least get a point. Am interested to see what changes Deano makes.

 

[Ponky]

It's all ifs, buts and maybes, but in hindsight it might have been better to replace Trez with Lansbury and gone a bit more compact to try and retain the ball in midfield. 

No doubt Jota had a mare and Smith would not have expected him to have given the ball away with the regularity he did. 

I expect Smith learned some things about his squad this weekend that only a baptism of fire in the Premier League could reveal. 

[MrDuck]

I thought we did quite well overall - if Trezeguet had put away his very score-able chances we could have gone in 3 up at halftime. We won't get many harder tests than that one this season. Disappointed, but plenty of positives for me, especially Heaton, Mings and Engels.

[Monsieur Hazdazler]

12 hours ago, Spursy said:

It's always fascinating to read what opposition fans think and it's interesting how so many people can watch the same game and have different views on what happened. From my perspective we got hit with an early counter attack goal and then Villa parked the bus quite successfully and we had no answer to it (and not for the first time - our lack of guile when teams defend deep is nothing new and you're not the first team to exploit this weakness). Poch admitted the first half was "his fault" as the formation wasn't quite clear and he sorted this at half time. To be fair we had 7 first choice players missing and fielded an 11 who had never played together before so I suppose it was to be expected. Our success in the second half was purely down to the change in formation and our fitness. Still can't get used to being referred to as "Champions League Finalists" - that does feel weird. Even though yesterday we only started 6 players who played in the final.

It's great to have a big club like Villa back in the Premier League. I think some in this thread are being over critical - you've got some good players and we were properly tested yesterday. I can't see you having any problems staying up if you play with that commitment and attitude for the rest of the season.

This is a bit of a dorky conversation about labels, but for me parking the bus is more a case of sticking the whole team behind the ball and not trying to really attack or be ambitious. In the first half we played a deep line and a press that initiated on the half way line, followed by a swift counter. it worked perfectly for the first half, we had the goal and a couple of other really good chances. You guys had a few chances as well and Kane probably could/should have scored that header, but we made it a remarkably even game given the difference in quality between the sides.

Second half we tried to do the same thing, except our ability to break out or hold the ball for any length of time disappeared through a combination of tiredness, your excellent tactical changes, poor individual play and some slightly questionable subs (although in reality I'm not sure Smith had many good options, unless he changed the tactical structure, but then if we'd have lost anyway he would have coped the blame for that). 

[Raver50032]

Heaton was my MOTM. I won't comment much about the game, because whichever side of the fence I am on, I'm going to fall foul of the 'give your head a wobble' finger wagging that is so prevalent on both sides and I don't really want to fall into the trap. I can't be arsed to argue the toss with any of you. You don't have to quote me... you don't have to hash-tag me... just shake your head, disagree if you want to and move along. You won't change my mind, and I don't intend to try and change yours with an endless exchange of wasted keyboard minutes.   

All I feel that I need to say is, I always looked at this game as a 'free hit.' Never expected a win, and for the 'first day nerves' that I hoped Spurs would suffer (they did suffer some sort of lack of sharpness) and the 'plucky newcomer surprise package' that I hoped Villa would be, I thought a draw was the best I could hope for prior to the game. I prayed that we wouldn't get spanked too hard. I guess we could have lost 4-1 like Norwich did, or even 4-0 like Chelsea. But yay, we're only down to 15th on goal difference...

I don't expect instant results - especially not against Clubs like Spurs, United or Liverpool, but I don't expect it to take months to gel the team either. I would be quite disheartened if we didn't see ANY points at all in August. The narrative from the Club this summer is that this is a 'great bunch of lads' who are all friends and everything will be fine and we can't wait to get cracking... So I'm not having any of the 'it will take time' stuff I'm seeing either. These are all players that Smith seemed to want at the Club... and looking at the transfer threads, we as supporters wanted/accepted too. It was the 'PERFECT' transfer window, no? I enjoyed it, though felt we should have pressed home with another striker... but Kodjia seems to be the egg in the basket.

As it happens, I can't feel 'proud' of a set of players that lose three goals in seventeen minutes. That second half... really was disappointing whether as a hopeful supporter, a blind-faith deluded supporter or even just a humble realist supporter. Unless I'm expected to be 'proud' that they kept the score down? Could easily have been 6. You're all quite within your rights to disagree of course, but I feel it's akin to lying to oneself if that can't be seen. There was some positive counter attacking that led to our goal, and to another pretty decent chance... There was some fine goalkeeping (the rush of blood outside the area Heaton Header not withstanding). There were particular moments of defensive excellence, and I have every faith in Mings and Engels.

But, it is possible to acknowledge that the team defended resolutely (and rode their luck a fair bit) without being 'proud.' It's possible to feel disappointed with something, even when it was always possible/likely that we would taste defeat. I was disappointed with what actually happened, as I am sure Smith will be. He even said that the plan for the second half wasn't followed (or words to that effect on Villa's YouTube channel post match).

I'm hopeful for the season, but I'm realistic. I'm not in a panic, but I'm not going to frivolously blow smoke up the team's arse either. If our support is 'proud' of the team for that overall performance, what will they be when we finally earn a draw or a even a win against a team like Spurs? Where is the wriggle room? I'm not losing any poop over it... just an observation.   

There were concerning things about the match, as were there a number of positives. If Villa can wake up and learn the many lessons they were taught by Tottenham Hotspur, then I have every faith that our own Club will be fine. In Smith I trust... UTV.

--

Good to hear the travelling Villa fans in decent voice.

 

[KenjiOgiwara]

4 minutes ago, Raver50032 said:

As it happens, I can't feel 'proud' of a set of players that lose three goals in seventeen minutes. 

Can you feel some pride from the first 45-70 minutes though? We got an entire season to get the last 20-25 minutes right 

[Raver50032]

9 minutes ago, Raver50032 said:

 I can't be arsed to argue the toss with any of you. You don't have to quote me... you don't have to hash-tag me... just shake your head, disagree if you want to and move along. You won't change my mind, and I don't intend to try and change yours with an endless exchange of wasted keyboard minutes.   

 

 

 

[TRO]

15 hours ago, JoshVilla said:

It sort of went as I expected, to be honest.

 

I was in dreamland when McGinn scored, but realistically, sitting back for the remainder of the game against last season's CL finalists is only really going to end one way. I do think we defended well in general but it obviously took a lot out of us and once the tank was empty Spurs took full advantage. It's a good eye opener for us - it demonstrates just how much sharper we need to be and what can happen if we don't look after the ball. 

 

Early signs are reasonably positive, I think. There's not going to be too many games as tough as that (though some tougher), and if we can match that game for effort then I think we'll be okay.

A very poignant point.

I think Dean will be working very hard on this aspect alone......We do have a tendency to dwell on the ball at times, but some of that comes from potential recipients not being sharply aware of making themselves available for the pass.....

There is no mental " rest Area" in this league......full concentration is a pre-requisite.