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I think he can come good, whether he will though is another matter.

I wonder if he had better / more active midfielders around him it would have helped him settle /develop better, cant be easy when you are basically the only midfielder who actually even tries to work.

I wonder if Nakamba, a fit McGinn (who is an engine also), and someone else who could carry him a little would have helped, rather than leave him so isolated all the time like he is currently.

Edited by MaVilla
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9 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

I think he can come good, whether he will though is another matter.

I wonder if he had better / more active midfielders around him it would have helped him settle /develop better, cant be easy when you are basically the only midfielder who actually even tries to work.

I wonder if Nakamba, a fit McGinn (who is an engine also), and someone else who could carry him a little would have helped, rather than leave him so isolated all the time like he is currently.

I do worry though, in as much as years ago watching Villa.....we rarely used the term " he needs help" we just took it naturally that the manager of the day bought players good enough, to punch their own weight.

They can't all need help can they?.....but they look like they do.

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4 hours ago, TRO said:

I do worry though, in as much as years ago watching Villa.....we rarely used the term " he needs help" we just took it naturally that the manager of the day bought players good enough, to punch their own weight.

They can't all need help can they?.....but they look like they do.

Yeah you are right.

My thought was that a) hes new to the country and league, b) would benefit from time to grow and develop to get up to speed, and c) this process would be helped if he had more stable and better players around him.

Granted he should be ok as he is, but as with everything in life, you develop better when the standards are higher around you, rather than battling to just stay afloat because you are surrounded by suckers...

He may only ever me an average player, who knows, I'm just saying he isn't helped by the fact he has lazy and ineffective players around him so he cant develop steadily, it's kind of all or nothing.

I dont really mean he should need "help", just that he needs time to grow and develop without 100% pressure 100% of the time, ie: he could have the good and bad days as he settles and develops, because others around him are stable, settled, perform and assist the team and it's not the end of the world if he does make the odd off game, where as currently if he has a bad game that is a disaster because too regularly a lot of our other players do also.

The problem seems a bit of that a lot of our players in the same boat, a lot of new, premiership inexperienced, fairly young, fairly inconsistent players, all having the same issues, which unfortunately means all them get highlighted as poor because there is no slack in the overall performance of the team to accommodate growth and development.

I would say guilbert, engels, targett, luiz, nakamba, konsa, hause, trez, wesley, samatta are all in this boat, and to a lesser degree even El ghazi, mings, McGinn and jota. 

I reckon Reina, Heaton and grealish are probably our only true 100% premiership ready players.

Any that aren't mentioned are just not good enough in the first place......

That pretty much the entire squad.

I honestly think most of these players in 12 months will be ok premiership players, bit the problem is we just have too many players learning on the job at the same time and it's almost dragging them all down at the same time.

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11 hours ago, MaVilla said:

Yeah you are right.

My thought was that a) hes new to the country and league, b) would benefit from time to grow and develop to get up to speed, and c) this process would be helped if he had more stable and better players around him.

Granted he should be ok as he is, but as with everything in life, you develop better when the standards are higher around you, rather than battling to just stay afloat because you are surrounded by suckers...

He may only ever me an average player, who knows, I'm just saying he isn't helped by the fact he has lazy and ineffective players around him so he cant develop steadily, it's kind of all or nothing.

I dont really mean he should need "help", just that he needs time to grow and develop without 100% pressure 100% of the time, ie: he could have the good and bad days as he settles and develops, because others around him are stable, settled, perform and assist the team and it's not the end of the world if he does make the odd off game, where as currently if he has a bad game that is a disaster because too regularly a lot of our other players do also.

The problem seems a bit of that a lot of our players in the same boat, a lot of new, premiership inexperienced, fairly young, fairly inconsistent players, all having the same issues, which unfortunately means all them get highlighted as poor because there is no slack in the overall performance of the team to accommodate growth and development.

I would say guilbert, engels, targett, luiz, nakamba, konsa, hause, trez, wesley, samatta are all in this boat, and to a lesser degree even El ghazi, mings, McGinn and jota. 

I reckon Reina, Heaton and grealish are probably our only true 100% premiership ready players.

Any that aren't mentioned are just not good enough in the first place......

That pretty much the entire squad.

I honestly think most of these players in 12 months will be ok premiership players, bit the problem is we just have too many players learning on the job at the same time and it's almost dragging them all down at the same time.

Its a point I cannot argue with, with any conviction, but it does seem like Samatta, has settled in pretty quickly, despite the poor service.

Lets assume you are right, by the time they produce what we thought we was getting, we could be in another division.....It strikes me we either sign over the hill experience  or inexperienced youth....and not much in between.

Long and medium term goals are important, but the "Here and now" is what takes us there......but more worrying, this is not the first time, we have done this and we did say, never again.

I also think we are missing a trick in the lower divisions.....would we ever have signed Vardy, would we have picked up a Maddison at Coventry.....we simply haven't got the foresight, I remember when I first saw Vardy at Leicester and researched his past, I thought he has pace and intensity to burn an effervescent outlook that has never ceased, even with age....These players are around, not in abundance,but they need a chance, but you need scouts with the nous to spot them and take a chance.....its much harder to introduce these gambles when you are in the top 6, but we should be in our element doing it, where we are.....but we need coaches who can develop players, coaches that can take raw talent, blistering pace and make something of it.....Traore another dumb loss, through ineffefficient nous.

My biggest concern so far this season, has I have seen no player with noticable improvement.....That is not something, I have been used to in my earlier days watching Villa under Saunders, Atkinson( early tenure), Little, Gregory and Taylor Mk1

It is so hard in our position to buy ready made players and it is getting harder.....we have to improve what we have, when we buy them.

I would be genuinely scared if we went in for a 60 mill player, such is my jaundiced view or our recruitment....I have marginal confidence in it.

 

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16 minutes ago, TRO said:

Its a point I cannot argue with, with any conviction, but it does seem like Samatta, has settled in pretty quickly, despite the poor service.

Lets assume you are right, by the time they produce what we thought we was getting, we could be in another division.....It strikes me we either sign over the hill experience  or inexperienced youth....and not much in between.

Long and medium term goals are important, but the "Here and now" is what takes us there......but more worrying, this is not the first time, we have done this and we did say, never again.

I also think we are missing a trick in the lower divisions.....would we ever have signed Vardy, would we have picked up a Maddison at Coventry.....we simply haven't got the foresight, I remember when I first saw Vardy at Leicester and researched his past, I thought he has pace and intensity to burn an effervescent outlook that has never ceased, even with age....These players are around, not in abundance,but they need a chance, but you need scouts with the nous to spot them and take a chance.....its much harder to introduce these gambles when you are in the top 6, but we should be in our element doing it, where we are.....but we need coaches who can develop players, coaches that can take raw talent, blistering pace and make something of it.....Traore another dumb loss, through ineffefficient nous.

My biggest concern so far this season, has I have seen no player with noticable improvement.....That is not something, I have been used to in my earlier days watching Villa under Saunders, Atkinson( early tenure), Little, Gregory and Taylor Mk1

It is so hard in our position to buy ready made players and it is getting harder.....we have to improve what we have, when we buy them.

I would be genuinely scared if we went in for a 60 mill player, such is my jaundiced view or our recruitment....I have marginal confidence in it.

 

Good points.

My worry is we either a)wouldnt recruit the players like vardy that you mention, or even wise b) we do or have and we end up calling then crap and saying get rid, or not realising their potential and selling for pennies.

I think our last 5-10 years or so is littered with point B, such as gueye, amavi, veretout, Cahill, traore, albrighton, and to a lesser degree even players like Westwood who is now at an average premiership team and playing regularly.

I wonder sometimes if the club is part of the problem, burning also question the fans sometimes.

I can almost see players like luiz, nakamba, engels, konsa, targett, trez, wesley etc going on to have decent careers if we ever sold them because they are "crap" or "under performing".

What on earth do we do to players......

 

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23 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

Good points.

My worry is we either a)wouldnt recruit the players like vardy that you mention, or even wise b) we do or have and we end up calling then crap and saying get rid, or not realising their potential and selling for pennies.

I think our last 5-10 years or so is littered with point B, such as gueye, amavi, veretout, Cahill, traore, albrighton, and to a lesser degree even players like Westwood who is now at an average premiership team and playing regularly.

I wonder sometimes if the club is part of the problem, burning also question the fans sometimes.

I can almost see players like luiz, nakamba, engels, konsa, targett, trez, wesley etc going on to have decent careers if we ever sold them because they are "crap" or "under performing".

What on earth do we do to players......

 

In a nutshell.....a very good question.

I think initially Mings was showing the work Terry was doing with him........whats happened now, is anyones guess?

I think one of the issues conspiring against the club is, that when we went down the financial impact was far reaching, redundancies abound and so on and I fear another setback is bad ,but  maybe not quite as bad as before.....we were then desperate to get back and having a fraud in charge has delayed our progress.

Signing too many players at once is never good, but unfortunately was necessary.....But when you are desperate to get back, mistakes get made in haste, when you sign that many.

We really do need to get back to signing 3/4 players in a season with measured decision making, with an eye on team necessity not on resell as a priority.

I initially liked Nakamba, but like the rest he is looking like little boy lost to me.

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Trouble is he'll start the next game, constantly give the ball away to Neves and Moutinho and then we'll get another 3-4 pages of "OMG where do we get this rubbish from." He's just an average player who may improve in future but isn't good enough to start every week in this league as his starts at Bournemouth and Southampton showed. Was also really poor in the Wolves away game.

We are 19th this late on in the season for a reason.

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Young player with a bit about him. Has been inconsistent sometimes during games.  But he will improve. Changed the game back towards us. Bought steel and a presence that was needed. Keep it simple marvelous like you did today. 

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