Douglas Luiz

[Stevo985]

10 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

He was never going to last 90 minutes today so don't see the huge outrage at him going off. Try playing a high intensity premier league match after 16 hour flight through the night.

Was amazed he started actually. At least Martinez dosen't run about much with his position.

That's the crux really as would've been ideal to put him on at 2-0 up and 20 minutes left but perhaps we wouldn't have been in that position with Ramsey/Nakamba starting.

I don't think the outrage is at him going off. I think like you say it's totally understandable.

I think the outrage is when we've had to take off Luiz, why then take off Buendia as well for Ramsey? 

We were controlling the midfield and chose to take off two thirds of it.

 

It was naive at best

[VillaChris]

Yes Bunedia going off was very odd considering that was easily his best game today, no argument from me there. Not liked he's been flying around the world last two weeks either so surely could've lasted 90 minutes today.

Think DS just got in a muddle today at 2 up. That's the cons of his management style sometimes.

[Indigo]

Proving just how important he is this season.

[Keyblade]

3 hours ago, VillaChris said:

Yes Bunedia going off was very odd considering that was easily his best game today, no argument from me there. Not liked he's been flying around the world last two weeks either so surely could've lasted 90 minutes today.

Think DS just got in a muddle today at 2 up. That's the cons of his management style sometimes.

Buendia asked to be taken off, he was completely gassed.

[birdman]

3 hours ago, VillaChris said:

Yes Bunedia going off was very odd considering that was easily his best game today, no argument from me there. Not liked he's been flying around the world last two weeks either so surely could've lasted 90 minutes today.

Think DS just got in a muddle today at 2 up. That's the cons of his management style sometimes.

A match is totally different to training and he hasn't really played many minutes this season. If he was unable to give 100% fair play for speaking up. Today will have helped though and hopefully he starts next week too.

[TRO]

5 fans voted Dougie MOTM......98 Voted for SJM

I would be genuinely interested to know what they saw that prompted them to cast their vote to Dougie.

The suspense is overwhelming.

[Sulberto21]

8 hours ago, TRO said:

5 fans voted Dougie MOTM......98 Voted for SJM

I would be genuinely interested to know what they saw that prompted them to cast their vote to Dougie.

The suspense is overwhelming.

Maybe his 91% passing accuracy combined with 2 tackles and the general control he had on the game along with McGinn. Maybe it was his 1 key pass and the fact he kept finding John in space to allow him to have 6 key passes. 

Or there was his reading of the game. McGinn and Luiz were fantastic together yesterday as they have been throughout the season. We need Sanson fit for more than 45 minutes to complete the triumvirate.

[TRO]

3 hours ago, Sulberto21 said:

Maybe his 91% passing accuracy combined with 2 tackles and the general control he had on the game along with McGinn. Maybe it was his 1 key pass and the fact he kept finding John in space to allow him to have 6 key passes. 

Or there was his reading of the game. McGinn and Luiz were fantastic together yesterday as they have been throughout the season. We need Sanson fit for more than 45 minutes to complete the triumvirate.

 McGinn that was plain to see...hence the overwhelming vote.

so they were both fantastic and one gets 98 votes and the other gets 5 ......I don't doubt Dougies passing ability, but I expect more urgency and fiestyness from midfielders, I saw that with McGinn.

Dougs passing accuracy is very noble....but my eyes tell me many passes are just routine, in unchallenged area's, just recycling activity, not penetrative passes that open teams up, sure he has the odd one or two.....I am simply not convinced.

 

[a m ole]

4 hours ago, Sulberto21 said:

We need Sanson fit for more than 45 minutes to complete the triumvirate

I can’t wait to see us in a 4-3-3 with these 3 playing, Buendia and Bailey on the wings with whoever is performing up top would get us flying.

[Sulberto21]

50 minutes ago, TRO said:

 McGinn that was plain to see...hence the overwhelming vote.

so they were both fantastic and one gets 98 votes and the other gets 5 ......I don't doubt Dougies passing ability, but I expect more urgency and fiestyness from midfielders, I saw that with McGinn.

Dougs passing accuracy is very noble....but my eyes tell me many passes are just routine, in unchallenged area's, just recycling activity, not penetrative passes that open teams up, sure he has the odd one or two.....I am simply not convinced.

 

Respectfully What my eyes told me were that when Luiz went off McGinn became less effective because he wasn't being found in the areas where he was more effective and those 'routine' passes became non existent hence The dingles controlled the game from that point onwards.

I forgot to mention that Luiz also found Buendia with regularity which means that he must have had to break the lines because Buendia played in the ten role although McGinn was very good at this too.

In fact our best moves were Mings to Targett to Luiz to McGinn to Buendia....

Yesterday McGinn had a 78% accuracy from 40 passes but 6 key passes. This is impressive.

It's like boxing some prefer come forward pressure fighters (McGinn) and others prefer the slick mover boxers (Luiz). 

Our issue is Midfield but the problem was highlighted yesterday - numerous times both McGinn and Luiz demanded the ball from Tuanzebe in acres of space but were ignored by him.

They need to be making around 55+ passes a game but despite wanting the ball they get bypassed too much.

[TRO]

15 minutes ago, Sulberto21 said:

Respectfully What my eyes told me were that when Luiz went off McGinn became less effective because he wasn't being found in the areas where he was more effective and those 'routine' passes became non existent hence The dingles controlled the game from that point onwards.

I forgot to mention that Luiz also found Buendia with regularity which means that he must have had to break the lines because Buendia played in the ten role although McGinn was very good at this too.

In fact our best moves were Mings to Targett to Luiz to McGinn to Buendia....

Yesterday McGinn had a 78% accuracy from 40 passes but 6 key passes. This is impressive.

It's like boxing some prefer come forward pressure fighters (McGinn) and others prefer the slick mover boxers (Luiz). 

Our issue is Midfield but the problem was highlighted yesterday - numerous times both McGinn and Luiz demanded the ball from Tuanzebe in acres of space but were ignored by him.

They need to be making around 55+ passes a game but despite wanting the ball they get bypassed too much.

I just look for more aggression from a No 6.....but I accept his good stuff, i.e passing.

I also accept what you are saying....

to compound matters, Ramsey was passive too when he came on......young players are suseptible to that.

Edited October 17, 2021 by TRO

[Sulberto21]

4 minutes ago, TRO said:

I just look for more aggression from a No 6.....but I accept his good stuff, i.e passing.

I also accept what you are saying....

to compound matters, Ramsey was passive too when he came on......young players are suseptible to that.

For me aggression isn't just about making tackles or kicking the opposition. It can be aggressive positioning too. Luiz sets the tempo for the team. He gets Johnny boy 10 yards further up. This is because McGinn trusts him.

As soon as he came off McGinn dropped off. Now neves and moutinho had the freedom they wanted. McGinn instinctively knew Nakamba is not going to find him in the pockets like Luiz was.

However the defensive line wasn't aggressive enough they stood off a bit too much for my liking.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Sulberto21 said:

For me aggression isn't just about making tackles or kicking the opposition. It can be aggressive positioning too. Luiz sets the tempo for the team. He gets Johnny boy 10 yards further up. This is because McGinn trusts him.

As soon as he came off McGinn dropped off. Now neves and moutinho had the freedom they wanted. McGinn instinctively knew Nakamba is not going to find him in the pockets like Luiz was.

However the defensive line wasn't aggressive enough they stood off a bit too much for my liking.

Kicking the opposition No, making tackles yes.......but its more about getting to the ball before and opponent, staying on the ball and being resolute....and imprtantly denying the opposition a chance to do the same....stopping runners....thats my idea of a No 6.

I don't doubt your other observations, but I am not advocating Doug is a poor player.

Nakamba was a sensible introduction in my mind......but his presence was not felt.

you are talking about stuff with the ball, I am talking about play without the ball.....its wasn't about McGinn being found with the ball, it was about not being bulldozed out of the game, by a team with nothing to lose, until they found it so easy to score the first of their goals.

Containing teams is paramount to winning points, its not always about being on the ball, we have to be better without the ball too.

 

[Sulberto21]

36 minutes ago, TRO said:

Kicking the opposition No, making tackles yes.......but its more about getting to the ball before and opponent, staying on the ball and being resolute....and imprtantly denying the opposition a chance to do the same....stopping runners....thats my idea of a No 6.

I don't doubt your other observations, but I am not advocating Doug is a poor player.

Nakamba was a sensible introduction in my mind......but his presence was not felt.

you are talking about stuff with the ball, I am talking about play without the ball.....its wasn't about McGinn being found with the ball, it was about not being bulldozed out of the game, by a team with nothing to lose, until they found it so easy to score the first of their goals.

Containing teams is paramount to winning points, its not always about being on the ball, we have to be better without the ball too.

 

We will have to agree to disagree but I clearly mentioned that we dropped 10 yards as soon as Luiz went off. McGinn also dropped off when Luiz went off. That's off the ball stuff. 

To summarize as soon as Luiz went off we were poor off the ball and on the ball too.

2 hours ago, Sulberto21 said:

For me aggression isn't just about making tackles or kicking the opposition. It can be aggressive positioning too. Luiz sets the tempo for the team. He gets Johnny boy 10 yards further up. This is because McGinn trusts him.

As soon as he came off McGinn dropped off. Now neves and moutinho had the freedom they wanted. McGinn instinctively knew Nakamba is not going to find him in the pockets like Luiz was.

However the defensive line wasn't aggressive enough they stood off a bit too much for my liking.

The highlighted bits are the stuff about the off the ball aspects I mentioned

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Sulberto21 said:

We will have to agree to disagree but I clearly mentioned that we dropped 10 yards as soon as Luiz went off. McGinn also dropped off when Luiz went off. That's off the ball stuff. 

To summarize as soon as Luiz went off we were poor off the ball and on the ball too.

The highlighted bits are the stuff about the off the ball aspects I mentioned

what is meant by agressive positioning, can you explain?

so are you saying Luiz was instrumental in McGinns outstanding game?

 

[KentVillan]

5 hours ago, TRO said:

what is meant by agressive positioning, can you explain?

so are you saying Luiz was instrumental in McGinns outstanding game?

Luiz and McGinn, when they're both playing well, definitely have a big impact on how good the other player looks.

McGinn is the energy and Luiz is the shape. Without the ball, McGinn is the one pressing and harassing, and then Luiz is the one cutting off angles and runs. In possession, McGinn is the one making runs, and Luiz is the one finding the deeper pocket of space.

Without McGinn's energy, Luiz gets overrun. Without Luiz's positional awareness, McGinn's aggressive pressing leaves big holes.

What we lost when Luiz went off was that composure and shape. Nakamba isn't that safe out ball, because teammates don't trust his touch, and he doesn't see good passes.

I agree with you McGinn put in a better all-round performance, but I don't think it's a coincidence that we collapsed after Luiz went off.

Edited October 17, 2021 by KentVillan

[M_Afro]

We need to get him signed up to a new contract. We are turning him in to a really good player. It would be really annoying if someone else reaps the benefits of this.

[WallisFrizz]

4 hours ago, M_Afro said:

We need to get him signed up to a new contract. We are turning him in to a really good player. It would be really annoying if someone else reaps the benefits of this.

I’m sure I read about a year ago that we had plans to give him a new contract, yet there’s been no announcement so maybe he doesn’t want to stay? If that’s the case then given he doesn’t have a huge amount of time left on his current one, I can see him leaving for less that we would be satisfied with.

It frustrates me that both he and McGinn were poorer last season (or reading the comments above maybe it only takes one to have a bad game for them both to look poor) as I think we would have finished several places higher if they had played like they are this season. I hope they don’t have a massive drop off in form if we go back to 433.

[sne]

Didn't do enough big boy shouting or waving of arms from the bench after he was substituted (insert name from 70's) would have demanded more and bla bla bla. He's also not tall enough.

[Zatman]

4 hours ago, WallisFrizz said:

I’m sure I read about a year ago that we had plans to give him a new contract, yet there’s been no announcement so maybe he doesn’t want to stay? If that’s the case then given he doesn’t have a huge amount of time left on his current one, I can see him leaving for less that we would be satisfied with.

It frustrates me that both he and McGinn were poorer last season (or reading the comments above maybe it only takes one to have a bad game for them both to look poor) as I think we would have finished several places higher if they had played like they are this season. I hope they don’t have a massive drop off in form if we go back to 433.

I do think they were both held back by Barkley playing next to them