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Douglas Luiz


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28 minutes ago, Danishlad said:

I’d be looking to improve on Luiz. Someone like D Rice. A stronger , faster prescence. 

I'd have this in-a-slump Luiz over Rice any day. Even on his worst day he can still pass.

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Technically he is very good, he strikes me as more a deep lying midfielder than DM. He has shown he can score but never came close last season. Where did Pep see him playing? Surely we have a player on our hands, I know he's young, I hope we don't ruin him! It wouldnt surprise me if he moved on and flourished, just our luck.

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Going into his third season and has he even had a single proper pre season with the club yet? Really not ideal for him. He's shown that the quality is there to excel as a DM/DLP/whatever term you'd like to put on it, but he's not really had the optimum circumstances to be able to produce it consistently. 

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13 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

Bit of an engima is Dougie. I don't really think him and McGinn work that well together.  

Should the board take a ruthless approach and sell one of these guys to raise revenue to buy an actual, proper, DM?

See I feel different, I feel instead of our defense taking all the crap it was the midfield and CDM, which that in turn failed and its players looked weaker due to us also not being able to hold onto the ball, retain it or intercept the ball back.

I think because we had Wingers that limits us right away and it's less body's centrally to help Luiz, Mcginn and sanson. Controlling the flanks is what we should be excelling at but if the opposition get the ball and stress the center then those three were looking overworked. Players like Ghazi and Trezegeut, Davis were not exactly brilliant and retaining the ball and that trickles on towards Sanson, Mcginn and to Luiz or Nakamba.  Often we would take it to final third and then lose it and not be able to gain it back which left us centrally screwed. In fact many times last season we would lose out in or around opposition box only to end up in one movement back up in our defense, that is not on at all and shouldn't be happening. I think if we can rectify that bit then our Midfield will certainly look a fair bit stronger. Having Buendia who can keep a ball, get it back or even take it somewhere playing in same team as Jack is going to give us a good chunk of possession in final third.

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5 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Apparently getting alot of abuse from fans in Brazil today, for what I would call a Villa esque performance. ( The bad ones only people who apparently only want a " clogger "often see ) Gave the ball away alot, and was generally weak.

Without sounding like a prick, I'm still waiting for the " Best young DM in England " ( Actual VT quote ) to rise from the ashes like a Phoenix.

He was poor to be fair. I watched it and tbh only because he was playing so I kept a very close eye on him. Gave the ball away twice for chances, and gave away a free kick which led to a goal. On the ball was unspectacular. Germany also had more players in midfield. Brazil stuck with a 4-4-2  from what I could see.

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16 hours ago, Dave-R said:

See I feel different, I feel instead of our defense taking all the crap it was the midfield and CDM, which that in turn failed and its players looked weaker due to us also not being able to hold onto the ball, retain it or intercept the ball back.

I think because we had Wingers that limits us right away and it's less body's centrally to help Luiz, Mcginn and sanson. Controlling the flanks is what we should be excelling at but if the opposition get the ball and stress the center then those three were looking overworked. Players like Ghazi and Trezegeut, Davis were not exactly brilliant and retaining the ball and that trickles on towards Sanson, Mcginn and to Luiz or Nakamba.  Often we would take it to final third and then lose it and not be able to gain it back which left us centrally screwed. In fact many times last season we would lose out in or around opposition box only to end up in one movement back up in our defense, that is not on at all and shouldn't be happening. I think if we can rectify that bit then our Midfield will certainly look a fair bit stronger. Having Buendia who can keep a ball, get it back or even take it somewhere playing in same team as Jack is going to give us a good chunk of possession in final third.

This seems to get lost on some. In modern football you defend as a team, starting with the forwards. If they aren't closing down then it puts undue pressure on the midfield and defence. The obsession with getting 'a big tough tackling unit to break up the play' as the solution to our midfield weakness is archaic and short-sighted. 

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On 13/07/2021 at 12:01, rodders0223 said:

Was in an out of the team towards the end of last season.

Luiz time will come again but in all honesty he can have a few weeks off and start the season off from the bench tbh and recoup that way. Nakamba has made great strides.

its what I am holding on to.

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4 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

The hell has happened with Luiz? 

Such drop off isn't normal.

Is there personal issues going on behind the scenes?

If by personal you mean a 23 year old kid living in a foreign country who's spent the majority of the last year not allowed to leave his house let alone go home or have his family visit... 

I think that along with the demotivation of our season being over in January, which it was, hit him really hard 

Worry is now that he's had such a big summer that again he's not going to get a proper year next year either, we need to manage him better, definitely trust Nakamba more, it'll be year 4 of his time as the villa that he should get a full pre season and then a full year of football... No doubt he'll get an injury... 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Made In Aston said:

This seems to get lost on some. In modern football you defend as a team, starting with the forwards. If they aren't closing down then it puts undue pressure on the midfield and defence. The obsession with getting 'a big tough tackling unit to break up the play' as the solution to our midfield weakness is archaic and short-sighted. 

You do everything as a team, defend and attack.....how often has the term being used as  " they play like a bunch of individuals".....you are right in what you say and your explanation is apt.

I think Italy in the final showed that argument to be flawed of big units....They had a midfield fairly diminutive, but they were tenacious and fiesty and very good with their close control of the ball, they came out with it on many duels......conversely Denmark, had some sizeable units, in their team and showed at times strong adverseries....I don't think its archaic, its just you use, with what you have available and create that style.

some teams, find it difficult to attract "Ballers" so they compensate with hard to beat neanderthals...(bit harsh, but you know what I mean)

Its not about the size ( unless its aerial duels) its about winning the ball and keeping it.....some big guys are not tough in the tackle.....Many factors relate to winning the ball, then you have to have skill in distributing it on time.

I think that line highlighted is a quick route to explain what is wrong with the play, but you are right to point it out......However, Rice and Henderson are not exactly small, so size is irrelevant really, its more about what they do.

Having said all of that, I do get frustrated, when a physically adept team imposes that physicality on us i.e Burnley and we have no answer to their bullying antics in the box, which regularly turn in to goal, thats where we should be winning the ball back further up field, to avoid having to defend so deep.....What midfield needs is not necessarily a "Big tough tackling unit"  just a " Tough tackling player" who looks comfortable doing it.

 

Edited by TRO
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6 hours ago, TRO said:

You do everything as a team, defend and attack.....how often has the term being used as  " they play like a bunch of individuals".....you are right in what you say and your explanation is apt.

I think Italy in the final showed that argument to be flawed of big units....They had a midfield fairly diminutive, but they were tenacious and fiesty and very good with their close control of the ball, they came out with it on many duels......conversely Denmark, had some sizeable units, in their team and showed at times strong adverseries....I don't think its archaic, its just you use, with what you have available and create that style.

some teams, find it difficult to attract "Ballers" so they compensate with hard to beat neanderthals...(bit harsh, but you know what I mean)

Its not about the size ( unless its aerial duels) its about winning the ball and keeping it.....some big guys are not tough in the tackle.....Many factors relate to winning the ball, then you have to have skill in distributing it on time.

I think that line highlighted is a quick route to explain what is wrong with the play, but you are right to point it out......However, Rice and Henderson are not exactly small, so size is irrelevant really, its more about what they do.

Having said all of that, I do get frustrated, when a physically adept team imposes that physicality on us i.e Burnley and we have no answer to their bullying antics in the box, which regularly turn in to goal, thats where we should be winning the ball back further up field, to avoid having to defend so deep.....What midfield needs is not necessarily a "Big tough tackling unit"  just a " Tough tackling player" who looks comfortable doing it.

 

It's hilarious to me that people keep trying to use the " sOmE jUsT wAnT a bIg lUmP aNd it's aRcHaIcH " constantly, ignoring the core element of the argument.

If said player was 3 ft 4 and could do the job required, we don't care what size he is ffs.

It just so happens that alot of the most effective DMs ( under top tier DMs ) also happen to have presence and strength, even if they are not the best on the ball.

They keep clinging onto the notion as a defense of Luiz at DM in our team .

Nakamba isn't exactly a unit and has put in some admirable defensive performances over the course of last season.

At the end of the day, it's whatever personell suits the systems which allows us to be at our best.

And yes, ideally, we would love to have an all round ballplayer who could be effective at ALL elements of CM/DCM play.

Edited by JAMAICAN-VILLAN
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4 hours ago, Reivax_Villa said:

He needs a rest.

A full PL season, Copa America and now the Olympics in Japan..

I’m not surprised in the slightest that his form is dropping off.

Very true. Presumably won't be playing for the first few games of the season. If Sanson isn't fit still, it actually leaves us a little light in that area.

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I was inspired a bit by looking at how many goals we conceded when Nakamba started and decided to do the same thing for Luiz. Seeing as one of the common defense of Luiz's ability at DM is that he was a part of a successful defense since we conceded so little with him. However, seeing how Nakamba actually started a lot of the games in which we conceded so little made me wonder how true this claim actually was.

Running the numbers, we conceded 43 goals over 32 games whenever Luiz started(most likely usually as opposed to Nakamba). That means we conceded an average of 1.3 goals per game when we started him last season. That would put as as the 11th least goals conceded last season if that average went to all 38 games. Our actual number of goals conceded last season would put us at joint 7th least goals conceded.

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5 minutes ago, AVFCforever1991 said:

He's just been sent off for Brazil Vs Ivory Coast,  Wesley giving him tips 

 

Clever way to get some rest ready for the new season. Or he’s got that fiery streak in him, where he just gets a rush of blood and does something rash. We’ve seen him do it at Villa.

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