Douglas Luiz

[Awol]

4 minutes ago, TRO said:

I would like to make my position clear with Douglas Luiz....I am not in favour of him leaving.

I want Dougie to develop his game.....If that means staying in his role, I want him to work on aspects of his game that make him a formidable modern CDM.

right now, he is not formidable, In my opinion......He has good bits of play, and not so good bits....we need more presence from him.

as for the abuse he is receiving from sections of the fan base, I abhor it.....It is small minded individuals who don't know a football from a corner flag....just know a bandwagon and a slagging off diatribe.

While Dougie gets his head down and works on his game ( in peace, free from social media ****) I will support him 110%

Come on Dougie, show us you can do it, like end of last season.

ps sorry if I'm being like the "repair shop" strip it down and build it back up.

 

I may have this wrong, but on his better form weren’t we playing more of a 4-1-4-1? Is he more suited to being the guy parked in front of the back four than in a double pivot? 

[sharkyvilla]

21 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I'm not saying there aren't issues, or that Luiz is perfect, or that nobody who plays there ever gets praised.

I'm merely making the point that it's a position that is almost universally underrated, and I've noticed it a lot with Villa fans for as long as I can remember.

Me too.  I thought Doug was probably the second-most important player in us staying up last season after we returned from the lockdown.  He was then excellent for several months of this one as well.  You'd hope at the age of what, 22 or 23, you would expect him to grow to that level all the time, rather than the struggle he has had since the covid outbreak.  I still think he and McGinn have missed having a proper 3rd central midfielder with Barkley going AWOL plus also Jack helping to take the ball forward from deep.

[wilko154]

I've just said similar in the Sanson thread, but I think the key to getting the best out of Luiz, McGinn and Sanson next season is to bring in a physically imposing DM to do the dirty work behind the midfielders.

Luiz is technically a superb player, but right now he's being shackled into a position where he's being expected to do a job that he isn't built for. If he can play just ahead of a DM who will do the intercepting and tackling, it then allows Luiz the freedom to bring the ball out from the back and link up the play further forward.

At this stage of his development though he is still learning, he's a good player and can still become even better over the next few seasons.

[TRO]

11 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

We need to get him in the gym on the Matt Targett, Keinan Davis and Grealish program.

People under rate strength development and the necessity in this League IMO.

Targett has transformed as a player. Hopefully another summer of work will see a much improved Doug.

I don't want him gone by any stretch either.

JV nothing could be truer.....that does not mean abondoning expansive football or playing park the bus stuff, which sometimes gets confused, with such a claim.

You only have to watch the top teams and switch off the eye candy for a moment and watch their physical side.....They are formidable in their application. I think we have a bit to learn on that.

We have done marvellous, this season, but we have much to learn.....and learn we must......We need to add to our game, not replace or change, add additional attributes, like aerial dominance and closer contact and an ability to postion well, without the ball.

A spell with Ollie Stevenson will do Dougie a power of good, pardon the pun....He should emulate the plan he did for Jack.

Dougie has it in him to be a fine player....its that dedicated essential work that he needs.

Edited May 11, 2021 by TRO

[TRO]

23 minutes ago, Awol said:

I may have this wrong, but on his better form weren’t we playing more of a 4-1-4-1? Is he more suited to being the guy parked in front of the back four than in a double pivot? 

could be.

I have said before, I think he is better suited further forward....it was his assist for Berties goal.....he is good at playing players in.

I look at Rice & Soucek as just lazy example, playing similar roles.....they are like chalk and cheese to me to Dougie.

I do get a tad embarrassed at times, moaning about him, because deep down, I don't think he is a CDM....He might develop in to one, but I have my doubts.

I think he is being played out of his natural position CAM, so my comments about him, could be inadvertently unfair....To compound the problem, I don't think John McGinn is a CDM either, so a double pivot for them, is not for me....it smacks of Accomodation, sorry...subsequently lack of Balance.

 

Edited May 11, 2021 by TRO

[WooJung]

17 minutes ago, wilko154 said:

I've just said similar in the Sanson thread, but I think the key to getting the best out of Luiz, McGinn and Sanson next season is to bring in a physically imposing DM to do the dirty work behind the midfielders.

Luiz is technically a superb player, but right now he's being shackled into a position where he's being expected to do a job that he isn't built for. If he can play just ahead of a DM who will do the intercepting and tackling, it then allows Luiz the freedom to bring the ball out from the back and link up the play further forward.

At this stage of his development though he is still learning, he's a good player and can still become even better over the next few seasons.

We don't really seem care for physically imposing midfielders at villa though, do we? In the last 10 years who have we signed that fits that description? Jedinak, Sanchez, Scylla... I can't think of anyone else, I wouldn't class whelan, Barkley and tshibola as such... 

Our lack of height in midfield is also an issue, as we always seem to lose aerial duels there, and even when we do win them it's by a margin and not enough to actually direct the header to a team mate, and we inevitably lose posesison as a result. I hope that gets addressed in the summer. 

[PaulC]

34 minutes ago, TRO said:

could be.

I have said before, I think he is better suited further forward....it was his assist for Berties goal.....he is good at playing players in.

I look at Rice & Soucek as just lazy example, playing similar roles.....they are like chalk and cheese to me to Dougie.

I do get a tad embarrassed at times, moaning about him, because deep down, I don't think he is a CDM....He might develop in to one, but I have my doubts.

I think he is being played out of his natural position CAM, so my comments about him, could be inadvertently unfair....To compound the problem, I don't think John McGinn is a CDM either, so a double pivot for them, is not for me....it smacks of Accomodation, sorry...subsequently lack of Balance.

 

Probably but hes seems a bit lost these days when he gets into attacking positions. Afraid to shoot. 

[wilko154]

1 hour ago, WooJung said:

We don't really seem care for physically imposing midfielders at villa though, do we? In the last 10 years who have we signed that fits that description? Jedinak, Sanchez, Scylla... I can't think of anyone else, I wouldn't class whelan, Barkley and tshibola as such... 

Our lack of height in midfield is also an issue, as we always seem to lose aerial duels there, and even when we do win them it's by a margin and not enough to actually direct the header to a team mate, and we inevitably lose posesison as a result. I hope that gets addressed in the summer. 

Unfortunately over the last 10 years our midfield has been a mess; bar the last two seasons in the Championship where Jedinak and Whelan both helped to sure it up the majority of the time.

The last player we had that I can think of who helped to dominate games and allow us to play football was Stiliyan Petrov, and to some extent Nigel Reo Coker. Neither were dominant in the air but they could tackle and were imposing defensively, unafraid to get stuck in. They both allowed players like Barry, Milner, Young and Downing to get forward and do their thing whilst they sat in and sured up the back 4. Reo Coker probably isn't the best example but I remember him coming on for Petrov in games with some success.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, wilko154 said:

Unfortunately over the last 10 years our midfield has been a mess; bar the last two seasons in the Championship where Jedinak and Whelan both helped to sure it up the majority of the time.

The last player we had that I can think of who helped to dominate games and allow us to play football was Stiliyan Petrov, and to some extent Nigel Reo Coker. Neither were dominant in the air but they could tackle and were imposing defensively, unafraid to get stuck in. They both allowed players like Barry, Milner, Young and Downing to get forward and do their thing whilst they sat in and sured up the back 4. Reo Coker probably isn't the best example but I remember him coming on for Petrov in games with some success.

This is a quote from Johan Cryuff.....about playing without the ball :

·       "When you play a match, it is statistically proven that players actually have the ball 3 minutes on average...so , the most important thing is : what do you do during those 87 plus minutes    

           when you do not have the ball...That is what determines whether you're a good player or not"

Now we all know, a  lot of quotes are profound....but it makes you think more about our positioning and game Nous, when we haven't got the ball....and how much we take notice of that claim.

We have to work on the control in our game.

Edited May 11, 2021 by TRO

[KenjiOgiwara]

8 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

As long as I can remember, VT and football fans in general have vastly underrated the DM position and those who play there.

Luiz is good. He's not a world beater but he is absolutely fine for where we are as a club in that position. There are far more areas to be concerned about in the team than him

As what our of interest? It sure isn't GK, LB, RB, CB, CM/box-to-box or striker. So by far more do you mean wingers? 

[sharkyvilla]

I think if we prioritised a midfielder for his size then it would be further forward, using his power in the final third, giving the defenders something else to think about.  Dean seems to prefer a mopping-up kind of defensive midfielder who the goalkeeper can give the ball to.

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

As what our of interest? It sure isn't GK, LB, RB, CB, CM/box-to-box or striker. So by far more do you mean wingers? 

Wingers, another striker, attacking midfield (barkley and Ramsey aren't good enough (yet in Ramsey's case)), and cover at CB

[ciggiesnbeer]

Delighted he is looking likely to stay! We are lucky to have him. Young player who will only improve.

[KenjiOgiwara]

22 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Wingers, another striker, attacking midfield (barkley and Ramsey aren't good enough (yet in Ramsey's case)), and cover at CB

You're then talking squad depth. Sorting out our central midfield issues including luiz is more important than polishing the bench methinks. Ideally we do both mind.

[Stevo985]

17 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

You're then talking squad depth. Sorting out our central midfield issues including luiz is more important than polishing the bench methinks. Ideally we do both mind.

Not really. I'm talking about two or three starters (1/2 wingers depending on where grealish plays, if he's here, and a CAM). So half of those I mentioned are starters.

Luiz is plenty good enough to be starting for us. Whether you want to call it polishing the bench or not, it's far more important than replacing Luiz

[Dave-R]

I think we will most likely move for another CDM and sell Nakamba, especially if Luiz has anymore stinkers till season finishes.

I do think Luiz can knock it all out of his game, he's young enough.

I said previous game he did it against pogba, then was no need to grind up again pogba like that and stick his leg in-between his legs . On a serious side and Luiz could of held Pogba there, he wernt going no where and someone could of came and swept the ball up at the right proper angle and penalty would be avoided.

[VillanousOne]

10 minutes ago, Dave-R said:

I think we will most likely move for another CDM and sell Nakamba, especially if Luiz has anymore stinkers till season finishes.

I do think Luiz can knock it all out of his game, he's young enough.

I said previous game he did it against pogba, then was no need to grind up again pogba like that and stick his leg in-between his legs . On a serious side and Luiz could of held Pogba there, he wernt going no where and someone could of came and swept the ball up at the right proper angle and penalty would be avoided.

he can grind up against Pogba and knock one out, phwoar!

[Dave-R]

6 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

he can grind up against Pogba and knock one out, phwoar!

Well pogba must of felt something from behind that took him off his game and I doubt it was his foot. It's happened twice now and in Pogba mind it wasn't as soft a tackle as it were in nearly everyone else's eyes, Pogba soon dropped to the floor for ages he must of been well impressed with Luiz .

We shouldn't even play those two in the same game anymore, can't be having these type of shananogans happen on the pitch.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Dave-R

[KenjiOgiwara]

9 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

Not really. I'm talking about two or three starters (1/2 wingers depending on where grealish plays, if he's here, and a CAM). So half of those I mentioned are starters.

Luiz is plenty good enough to be starting for us. Whether you want to call it polishing the bench or not, it's far more important than replacing Luiz

Two starters surely? Grealish is most likely staying and thus playing. That means it's really just CAM and RW or RW and LW depending on his choice of position. I fail to see how it's three starters. 

So by far more you ment two positions? I agree we need to sort out those two more than anything. 

Anyway, this is just semantics I guess. I agree with you on the DM generally not being visible and appreciated, and it's historically been a case here. I quite like Luiz, but I still think he needs to improve a lot to become good enough. I think both size and strength is a big issue, and I also think the balance between SJM and Luiz is all wrong. But I guess we'll see next season.

Luiz has the advantage of being very young, and I guess it's important to keep that in mind. At 22 I barely could tie my shoelaces, so I expect he'll come on leaps and bounds. 

 

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Two starters surely? Grealish is most likely staying and thus playing. That means it's really just CAM and RW or RW and LW depending on his choice of position. I fail to see how it's three starters. 

So by far more you ment two positions? I agree we need to sort out those two more than anything. 

 

If grealish stays wide then I think we need two midfielders to start ahead of Luiz.

And no I didn't mean two positions. As per my last post I think it's more important to increase depth in AM and CB, even with non starters, than it is to replace luiz