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4 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

True... guess we all need to be a bit more mindful.

What I will say is that I once spoke to Ciaran Clark and said that he gets spinned and rolled alot because he gets too tight. His response was "thanks fella you're right it's something I'm working on.". Evidently it was a mentality issue during games. Since he's gone to Newcastle he's cut that part of his game down.

I've told Jordan Ayew he seems to get a little excited and rushes when presented with chances in the box. He said "yeah maybe". Then he proceeded to diss the management especially with regards to the punishment of Jack at the time. 

Depends on the player I suppose.

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, villa4europe said:

In terms of the players I think it's acceptable, just about 

There's a world of difference between posting he's shit on here and contacting him via social media private messages to say the same

Taking it further the Mike Dean stuff from a few weeks ago where he doesn't even have a social media account so people were searching out his kids and family members so they can message them "tell your dad he's a word removed" 

What the **** is wrong with people 

The social media companies have to do more, I doubt the police can unless it crosses various lines, the suggestion that the players have to come off the platforms misses the point by miles, it's not just a football problem 

I agree, what is it with these people.

what disappoints me on here is when folk say derogatory things about a player, with no explanation or back up as to why.

The players themselves are probably, very nice guys, the good players and the not so good.

What I try to do, is talk about their play/work not who they are.......I was very close at one time to a group of Villa Players, from the past and I can tell you categorically, they all try their best, it might not always work out, but they try....I know they try.

I was amazed with one high profile player from yesteryear, how vulnerable he was to his own ability......I remember on one occasion, building him up face to face.....Andy Gray came over to me and said "He Loves you".....but I was telling the truth, and funnily enough it was regarding playing Man U in a forth coming game....he was bricking it and I told him just how good he was and it was from the heart, I think he felt my sincerity.

If someone had of told me what I experienced, I would not have believed it......These players are vulnerable at times, they have self doubt......thats why our support is paramount, its not superficial, its crucial.

These kids are early twenties, they are young.......they are not emotionally Bomb Proof.

I was very disappointed to hear of the abuse DL got......its uncalled for.....but when you see some of them that do it, are we really surprised, really.

Edited by TRO
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I have to admit i didn’t see anything wrong with that ‘chin up’ message.  Players would probably flick past a message like that.  It’s ones that tell them to leave our club or hope they die that will obviously stand out to them. 

Edited by Vive_La_Villa
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Take the players out of form out of the firing line for a couple of games - at least in midweek.

Season is over, let them rebuild their confidence and have a rest. By and large they have done the job this season, and no need to keep playing them.

Luiz rest for Nakamba.

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I think Douglas Luiz is an excellent footballer. He is still very young, younger than Keinan Davis, and has a fantastic career ahead of him. It would not surprise me if we see him playing in World Cups and Champions League finals. We are lucky to have him.

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can anyone explain to me why Dougie gets a repeated 1 for MOTM on VT and its not always the same person?

I am intrigued.

 

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31 minutes ago, Enda said:

I think Douglas Luiz is an excellent footballer. He is still very young, younger than Keinan Davis, and has a fantastic career ahead of him. It would not surprise me if we see him playing in World Cups and Champions League finals. We are lucky to have him.

can you tell me why you say this?

I am genuinely interested to know.....as he is one of 2 players, not to have won MOTM on here all season.

I respect your opinion, but would just like to know what prompts you to say it?.....are you basing it on where he plays and what he gives us? or on where he should play and what he would give us?....just like to know.

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Enda said:

Fair questions, thanks for asking.

There’s a few reasons. First is people are not appreciating the facts here. Douglas has achieved a very high level at a very young age. He turned 23 yesterday but we’ve been watching him aged 21 and 22. Full international for Brazil. Remember that he’s still very much learning his trade, he’s younger than Keinan, and three years younger than Matt Targett. There are people on this site disparaging Dougie’s poor form who will then hand on heart say Keinan needs to go out on loan for a year to build up confidence. Mental. Was Matt Targett PL-ready three years ago? Not at all. Too wet around the ears.

Secondly, we have very short memories. Doug’s had a poor couple of months but at Christmas we were all worried he’d be off to Man City. There’s a proper player there. I suspect, but this is a guess, that he’s having very minor Barkley-like symptoms after the COVID break out. If that’s true, and again I’m guessing here but it coincides with a drop in form, he’s managing it better than some others.

Thirdly, Doug has largely not had any competition this season. He was dropped once and Marvo came in for a few matches. Our manager, who I think is generally great, makes the fewest changes in the whole league. Hopefully we’ll bolster midfield in the summer and that will start to get the best out of everyone.

Lastly, this whole thing reminds me a lot of Idrissa Gueye. We were watching 26 year old Gueye that season at VP. Gueye showed some quality, had some howlers, but really grew over a couple of seasons at Everton and is now a solid CL player. I rate Luiz at a similar level to Gueye. Look at what Gueye ended up doing, and he was 4 years older than Doug. Doug’s got a massive ceiling. It remains to be seen whether he takes full advantage of it. But it’s there, and it’s massive.

Thanks for an explicit explanation....I am now more aware of where you are coming from.

I conversely am not a fan of Dougies ( at present) in the role he currently plays...There are too many moments in a game where, I think he could/should do more to battle for the midfield initiative....He retreats too much for me and then eventually dives in in dangerous area's like sunday, and that was not a one off.

I am not influenced by his inclusion in the Brazil Team , but at the same time I  don't ignore it either.

I am influenced by what I see in his games for us.....I accept he has a typical touch of Brazillian when he is on the ball, which leaves me to suspect, he is better further forward as for me , he lacks the attributes to win the ball in turnovers, his stature is slight and only his nature drives him in to tackles which can appear desperate to referree's.....I think Pogba, knew for the second time, exactly what he was doing......He does not protect the back four as I would like to see.....neither does McGinn

I agree, I would not be discarding Dougie any time soon, but I would like to see the Dougie of post Covid last season....He has time on his side, but in my view needs to add essential attributes to his "comfort" on the ball, in order to be a more rounded midfielder.

If you remember, Jack had to spend time with Ollie Stevenson to add the strength on the ball, to his game, that has made him the player he is today......Dougie needs to do something similar.

 

 

Edited by TRO
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1 hour ago, tinker said:

He's not going to be a top level DM and being played as one, despite his obvious short comings, does him no favours. 

I genuinely think, some people are judging this " World Class DM " ceiling, purely on him being signed by Pep Guardiola and Man City, more than actual evidence.

I've said a multitude of times, I don't think he is a bad player, and has many attributes to be a very good CM/Playmaker, however, I still fail to see him in the position everyone else seems to want him in.

At least, until the unit in front of and around him is more solid. As the time he needs to do what they seem to think he does/can do, is not currently available against most opposition in the PL.

Edited by JAMAICAN-VILLAN
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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Sulberto21 said:

What I will say is that I once spoke to Ciaran Clark and said that he gets spinned and rolled alot because he gets too tight. His response was "thanks fella you're right it's something I'm working on.". Evidently it was a mentality issue during games. Since he's gone to Newcastle he's cut that part of his game down.

I've told Jordan Ayew he seems to get a little excited and rushes when presented with chances in the box. He said "yeah maybe". Then he proceeded to diss the management especially with regards to the punishment of Jack at the time. 

Depends on the player I suppose.

Thats why, they all have to work hard on their game....but I don't think they get the one on ones as much as everyone thinks...thats my understanding, but times might have changed now.

I had a pub once and gave Carlton Palmer a real 1 hour talking to, he was struggling to make an impact at the Baggies and told me.....I don't know why, he was a baggie, but I liked the kid, he was young and vulnerable....He said to me "Nobby Stiles" hasn't talked to me like that and showed passion in me.

Nobby stiles knows more about football, than I will ever know.....but these kids need one on ones and their emotional wellbeing needs nurture and grooming....I don't mean just blowing bubbles up their arses with platitudes, I mean real substance and sincerity in their future.

some of these coaches have too much to do, to give dedicated time and some of the stuff is mental well being and instilling confidence.....some say things like " he don't know how good he is" they genuinely don't.....but that has to be managed too.

I will tell you something else....some fans think these players have oodles of friends, they don''t, some are very lonely.....I remember Mrs Gray , Andy's Mom hugging me and my friends in the Trinity stands (when we first met)thanking us for looking after him, in our group of lads, she had tears in her eyes, that how important it is....Fortunately for Andy, we was a decent Bunch, who respected his role in the club.....We had some bloody fun though.

It's a subject on its own.

Edited by TRO
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1 hour ago, TRO said:

can anyone explain to me why Dougie gets a repeated 1 for MOTM on VT and its not always the same person?

I am intrigued.

 

Its either a joke vote or people feel sorry for him. I think he was getting a lot of votes at the end of last season but he hasnt played at that level this.  I know you see him as a box to box player but i always think of David Platt when we talk about box to box and hes definately not that. 

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We need better than Luiz at DM if we want to improve next season. Smith says our owners want us in Europe. Playing Luiz at DM doesn't take us there. Far from it.

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2 hours ago, PaulC said:

Its either a joke vote or people feel sorry for him. I think he was getting a lot of votes at the end of last season but he hasnt played at that level this.  I know you see him as a box to box player but i always think of David Platt when we talk about box to box and hes definately not that. 

I don't necessarily Paul, yes I saw platty and Taylor as box to box.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, thabucks said:

His stats as DM this season are very comparable to Yves Bissouma according to Wyscout 

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/douglas-luiz-replacements-aston-villa-20563505

If thats all they are looking for in a DM, I understand the stance.

"retrieve" is a word that spells passive to me, I want to use the word "Win" ball or dispossess the opponent, that requires a controlled element of power and aggression....He primarily picks up loose balls, which is ok, but not enough.

I look for more than that.....Its a regista role and it requires more than just feeding the attack, it requires, winning the ball, turning it over and protecting the back 4...it requires directing the field of play.

you are looking at half his job......but hey McGinn is not one either, despite being played in the double pivot and Nakamba is limited too......thats one of the reasons we have problems controlling a game.

Edited by TRO
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When people are referring to what he does well it tends to be when he is in possession and going forward. And when referring to what he doesn't do well it tends to be off the ball stuff, particularly when defending. 

Think i see a pattern here. 

DM should be first on our transfer list in priority. 

If Luiz is our main dm next season we have massively failed in the marked. 

Edited by villalad21
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, PaulC said:

Its either a joke vote or people feel sorry for him. I think he was getting a lot of votes at the end of last season but he hasnt played at that level this.  I know you see him as a box to box player but i always think of David Platt when we talk about box to box and hes definately not that. 

That annoyingly good ginger lad at Brentford...thats his role!

He plays in the DM position but he's really more of a withdrawn playmaker/Westwood metronome. 

Edited by Nigel
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14 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

When people are referring to what he does well it tends to be when he is in possession and going forward. And when referring to what he doesn't do well it tends to be off the ball stuff, particularly when defending. 

Think i see a pattern here. 

DM should be first on our transfer list in priority. 

If Luiz is our main dm next season we have massively failed in the marked. 

You have hit the nail on the head, with that top line.

watching play, when we haven't got the ball is interesting......Its something, I think we should do better, in order to progress and we need better players too, to do it......When we have the ball we have excellent passages of play, but when we haven't, we look vulnerable at times.

However, playing without the ball ,is a team thing not just one player....we have to do better, I have seen us do better.

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