Douglas Luiz

[Taxahunter]

On 11/10/2020 at 09:34, Junxs said:

Yep, I was just getting ready to write the same thing then saw your post.

Those worried about Man City buying him purely for sell on profits can put their minds at ease. Unless they feel he's actually good enough to play for them they wont be buying him back.

I dont think, that rule applies to how many times he is moved around. Its how many clubs he has actively played for. I remember a case in Denmark, FC Midtjyllan bought a player from Holstein Kiel, didnt play him, but after 2 months sold him on to FC Cologne with a huge profit.

Edited October 12, 2020 by Taxahunter

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

That's interesting, didn't think about that. What happens to city's buy back clause if another club buys him first? 

Again I might be wrong but my understand was they can offer 35m at the time and also discuss terms with the player. If he agreed to join Barcelona instead we would get whatever fee was agreed and the buy back would no longer be in place. 
 

But I’m probably totally wrong on this.

edit: just read back and I’m almost certainly wrong. Doesn’t sound right at all.

Edited October 12, 2020 by Vive_La_Villa

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 hours ago, Thug said:

I’m with this thought train.

 

Anything else would be a glorified loan.

A 2 year loan that cost them 20 million.  

[sharkyvilla]

If Doug's agent agreed to something where he had no choice of whether he could stay with us/turn City down then he should be shot.  I think people are overcomplicting it, I'm sure it's simply a case that City have a price we have to accept, then it's up to Doug.

[MrBlack]

13 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Again I might be wrong but my understand was they can offer 35m at the time and also discuss terms with the player. If he agreed to join Barcelona instead we would get whatever fee was agreed and the buy back would no longer be in place. 
 

But I’m probably totally wrong on this.

edit: just read back and I’m almost certainly wrong. Doesn’t sound right at all.

Honest answer is noone knows. It is highly likely that city agreed the transfer of Luiz back to them at the time they agreed the sale. It may already be contractually obliged for him to move,  in which case it wouldn't work as you described.

However, the agreement may just be with Villa, in which case they'd also have to agree terms with Luiz, and in this scenario your scenario could play out. However, i think it is unlikely City went down this route.

It would have been an easy decision for Luiz to agree to a guaranteed return of City trigger the clause, so i don't see why they wouldnt have done it.  There could, however  be clauses in that agreement  such as City needing to be in the Premier League, in the champions league, have Pep as manager... lots of unknowns and the fact is noone knows. 

Which basically means,  assuming he has a good season and plays for Brazil,  we will likely be paying some money to keep him,  as he'll be worth more than the clause is valued at. Whether we can offer city enough to mitigate against the benefit they'd get of having him is another matter.

Assuming he's a £50m player,  we may only have to offer them 20m to keep him (assuming a modest buy back figure of 30m). That would mean we only paid £35m, over 2 seasons, for a £50m player.  We should be able to persuade City to let us buy out the clause.

But the club should be making plans assuming he'll move and have identified his potential replacement if we can't keep him.  Arguably should have this in place for all our players but especially those that are likely to leave or more critical to the team. 

[MotoMkali]

3 hours ago, MrBlack said:

Honest answer is noone knows. It is highly likely that city agreed the transfer of Luiz back to them at the time they agreed the sale. It may already be contractually obliged for him to move,  in which case it wouldn't work as you described.

However, the agreement may just be with Villa, in which case they'd also have to agree terms with Luiz, and in this scenario your scenario could play out. However, i think it is unlikely City went down this route.

It would have been an easy decision for Luiz to agree to a guaranteed return of City trigger the clause, so i don't see why they wouldnt have done it.  There could, however  be clauses in that agreement  such as City needing to be in the Premier League, in the champions league, have Pep as manager... lots of unknowns and the fact is noone knows. 

Which basically means,  assuming he has a good season and plays for Brazil,  we will likely be paying some money to keep him,  as he'll be worth more than the clause is valued at. Whether we can offer city enough to mitigate against the benefit they'd get of having him is another matter.

Assuming he's a £50m player,  we may only have to offer them 20m to keep him (assuming a modest buy back figure of 30m). That would mean we only paid £35m, over 2 seasons, for a £50m player.  We should be able to persuade City to let us buy out the clause.

But the club should be making plans assuming he'll move and have identified his potential replacement if we can't keep him.  Arguably should have this in place for all our players but especially those that are likely to leave or more critical to the team. 

I don't think this would be the case. Luiz's agent will know how much potential he has and agreeing a guaranteed return would mena he gives up all the leverage and he wouldn't be able to demand the huge wages that he could get from City. If city were going to buy him Luiz would probably demand 180k+ a week I think. If he agrees to a guaranteed return he couldn't leverage a club like atletico or Barcelona who could both really do with a player like him in my opinion.  They would not have agreed a contract prior to leaving City it makes no sense for them. 

[Rightdm00]

Doesn't the Uk ban anything other than single registration of a player?  You can't be registered to Aston Villa and have some type of future contract signed with another club. I take that back, you can, but it's only allowed to be signed 6 months before the expiration of your current deal. 

A transfer fee is paid to acquire the "rights" to a player. A contract between player and club must be agreed upon separately.  The buy back clause is an agreement between 2 clubs on a players rights. If the clause is activated Dougie's rights would immediately transfer to ManC. City would still need to negotiate a new contract with him though. Could Douglas refuse?  Sure.  His rights would still be owned by City and they would have to quickly find a new home for their now quickly depreciating asset.  That would be a disaster and the main reason why clubs always negotiate player contracts before an official bid is lodged.  

As many have stated though this is all academic. If City come calling then Douglas is going back. No shame in that. The clause isn't a secret Lange will have a list of replacements ready to go. 

[AntrimBlack]

9 hours ago, Thug said:

I’m with this thought train.

 

Anything else would be a glorified loan.

That is exactly what it is - a glorified loan. To all intents and purposes he is still a Man C player until the clause expires.

[TRO]

7 hours ago, Rightdm00 said:

Doesn't the Uk ban anything other than single registration of a player?  You can't be registered to Aston Villa and have some type of future contract signed with another club. I take that back, you can, but it's only allowed to be signed 6 months before the expiration of your current deal. 

A transfer fee is paid to acquire the "rights" to a player. A contract between player and club must be agreed upon separately.  The buy back clause is an agreement between 2 clubs on a players rights. If the clause is activated Dougie's rights would immediately transfer to ManC. City would still need to negotiate a new contract with him though. Could Douglas refuse?  Sure.  His rights would still be owned by City and they would have to quickly find a new home for their now quickly depreciating asset.  That would be a disaster and the main reason why clubs always negotiate player contracts before an official bid is lodged.  

As many have stated though this is all academic. If City come calling then Douglas is going back. No shame in that. The clause isn't a secret Lange will have a list of replacements ready to go. 

easier said than done.....Dougie is now getting endorsements from one of the best midfielders in world football playing alongside him.....Not easy to replace Brazillian internationals.

[a m ole]

One thing is for certain, we don’t know how this deal works.

[Kiwivillan]

Villa own Luiz and Man City have a buy back clause with likely a set figure. They can't sell him to another club. 

Also no one knows what the buy back fee is so not sure why some are saying 35m. Last season it was 25m and that was pure speculation.  

City in the past have sold player for 8m and bought back for 8.5m or thereabouts those figures. We don't know that the Luiz arrangement is much different other than we paid 15m for work permit reasons 

[GingerCollins29]

He is arguably AS important as jack

[Dodgyknees]

1 minute ago, GingerCollins29 said:

He is arguably AS important as jack

Yep

[Thug]

17 minutes ago, GingerCollins29 said:

He is arguably AS important as jack

Whilst I agree, he is arguably easier to replace than jack.

[Rightdm00]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

easier said than done.....Dougie is now getting endorsements from one of the best midfielders in world football playing alongside him.....Not easy to replace Brazillian internationals.

Not easy but an expected part of the game. You buy young and hungry players some will want to move on.  Leicester has replaced several world class performers in their lineup over the years.  

I would rather have the issue of young/high performing players being sold for profit over a bloated squad with players on high wages that we can't shift because they stink. 

 

[barry'sboots]

Dougie L has been really good since Project Restart but he is not as important as Jack.  Jack is our talisman and chief creator but he is also a draw for new players - I am sure he was a huge pull for Barkley and probably Watkins.

[Villan4Life]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/12906362/brazil-douglas-luiz-aston-villa/

 

Quote

BEFORE last Friday, the senior international career of Aston Villa’s Douglas Luiz was limited to ten minutes off the bench in a low key friendly against South Korea last November.

Suddenly, he looks important to Brazil’s cause as they set out on the road to Qatar in the quest to win their first World Cup in twenty years.
here was a place going in the Brazilian midfield. Arthur, who has just moved from Barcelona to Juventus, was left out of the squad for the opening two rounds of qualifiers.

He had been a fixture in the post-Russia 2018 side. Coach Tite had a look at Allan, now of Everton, but he fell from favour.

Someone new would have to come in for Friday’s game at home to Bolivia in Sao Paulo.

The front runner appeared to be Bruno Guimaraes of Lyon, who captained Brazil’s Under-23 side earlier this year.

But as the week wore on it became clear that Douglas Luiz would get the nod. And during the game it also became clear that he has a vital role to play.

BEATEN JUST ONCE

In Tite’s four year reign as Brazil coach, he has only been beaten once in a competitive game - but it was the big one, the World Cup quarter final against Belgium when the team were ambushed early and crashed out of the competition 2-1.

Tite has spent plenty of time mulling over that defeat. One clear conclusion was that the team were too open down the left flank.

For all his attacking flair, Marcelo has never been a solid defensive full back. And ahead of him, Neymar was not going to do a great deal of defending.

Marcelo has not played for Brazil since. Tite’s idea straight after the World Cup was to go with a different style of full back, creating from deep and holding the defensive line rather than acting as wingers.

In the coach’s words, he was aiming for Manchester City full backs instead of Liverpool ones.

And so the left back position became a fight between Alex Sandro of Juventus and the former Chelsea veteran Filipe Luis.

But that was not a success - and along came Renan Lodi of Atletico Madrid, emerging as an attacking left back of genuine quality.

There was another advantage in having Renan Lodi charge down the wing. It freed Neymar to move away from the left touchline, allowing him to wander inside and probe for weaknesses.

But if Tite was to return to an attacking left back, he had to balance out his side with the inclusion of an extra defensive midfielder to cover the space left behind - and this is where Douglas Luiz came in.

BATTERED BOLIVIA

And he did a thoroughly proficient job in the 5-0 win over Bolivia. Allowances have to be made, though, for the weakness of the opposition.

Bolivia were ludicrously outgunned, and the game, especially in the first half, was little more than attack against defence.

Just before the first goal in the 15th minute Brazil had exchanged 118 passes against Bolivia's three.

Douglas Luiz protected the space behind Lodi - three of the five goals came from breaks down the left - and kept the team ticking over with crisp passing.

But other matches - indeed all the other 17 rounds of the qualification campaign - will be harder.

Starting with Tuesday’s visit to Peru. In all the games in the first two rounds, Peru against Brazil is the only meeting between teams who both qualified for Russia 2018.

Peruvian morale is high after a creditable 2-2 draw away to Paraguay on Thursday - the other four away sides in the opening round all lost.

Assuming that Brazil field the same team, then Douglas Luiz is in for the most important 90 minutes of his life in Lima.

 

[Kingman]

1 hour ago, Kiwivillan said:

Villa own Luiz and Man City have a buy back clause with likely a set figure. They can't sell him to another club. 

Also no one knows what the buy back fee is so not sure why some are saying 35m. Last season it was 25m and that was pure speculation.  

City in the past have sold player for 8m and bought back for 8.5m or thereabouts those figures. We don't know that the Luiz arrangement is much different other than we paid 15m for work permit reasons 

Yeah I remember reading this when he signed that the buy back was 25m year 1 then 35m in year 2.(Not sure if press made it up or official) Maybe Percy knows? 

If true Not sure of the finer detail, if they can activate clause in January or has to be before summer window shuts? 

Would be pretty shit if they can take him half way through the season though. 

[LondonLax]

On 11/10/2020 at 18:25, TrentVilla said:

Yes that would have to have been pre agreed as well although they could obviously go higher.

 In that scenario Luiz must have signed an agreed contract with City, setting his wages and the length of his contract. The trouble for him is that contract would have been agreed when he was a 19yo prospect (i.e. likely a 5 year deal on relatively low wages). If he is contractually obliged to to give up his Aston Villa contract next year (with whatever money we may offer him) and take up that deal instead he could have potentially hamstrung his earning for the duration of his prime years.  

[KenjiOgiwara]

8 hours ago, barry'sboots said:

Dougie L has been really good since Project Restart but he is not as important as Jack.  Jack is our talisman and chief creator but he is also a draw for new players - I am sure he was a huge pull for Barkley and probably Watkins.

I think the Liverpool match highlighted how Luiz isn't as important as Jack. Luiz has come on leaps and bounds and is definitely a key player for us, but against Liverpool Luiz had a pretty average match. He was probably one of the few that didn't stand out. I can't remember a match we did well, where Jack didn't show up on the other hand. Maybe some matches after the restart can be argued, but I still think Jack is a unicorn in that sense.