Tom Heaton

[Wezbid]

20 minutes ago, Herman22 said:

A sensible response to a sensible post. 

A sensible appraisal of a sensible response to a sensible post about a sensible transfer in a sensible sport.

[brommy]

1 minute ago, Teale's 'tache said:

I think most people, myself included wanted Butland, but from what we've heard Stoke moved the goalposts and asked for way too much. I don't think we should be held to ransom and clearly neither do the owners, don't be surprised if we are back in for Butland next summer and if Stoke don't go up I imagine the price will be far more reasonable.

Heaton is a more than capable stop gap and at a reasonable price, seems like good business to me.

I agree.

It’s okay to have wanted Butland but still to be happy with Heaton. Opinions will always differ but in summarising their average, I don’t think there is a big difference between the current ability of the two keepers. Ability aside, Heaton has the better experience, Butland has age on his side. I’m guessing Villa were willing to go towards £20m for Butland but Stoke were asking up to £30m, hoping Villa would bite at £25m. It’s less of a guess that VT would then feature many ‘ripped off’ and ‘pants down’ complaints. There’s no pleasing all.

When the player is proven good and the owning club aren’t in a ‘fire sale’ situation, it’s near impossible to pick up what initially appears to be a bargain. If Heaton gains us an unexpected extra 10 points over the next season or two, £8m could prove a good price.

[sharkyvilla]

38 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Anyone know how good he is with the ball at his feet?

Pre season seems to show that we will look to play from the back and Steer has had a few iffy moments....the rule change on goal kicks (with players no longer having to be outside of the box) will also bring added pressure on goalies as opposition players will be right on top of them.

Can only assume he’s got a good range of passing else if struggle to see why we’d be signing him.

Can opposition players go in the penalty box for goal kicks now? I assumed it was just teammates. 

Anyway happy with this, although I'm a big fan of Steer and wouldn't have minded him playing either.  

[Teale's 'tache]

1 minute ago, brommy said:

I agree.

It’s okay to have wanted Butland but still to be happy with Heaton. Opinions will always differ but in summarising their average, I don’t think there is a big difference between the current ability of the two keepers. Ability aside, Heaton has the better experience, Butland has age on his side. I’m guessing Villa were willing to go towards £20m for Butland but Stoke were asking up to £30m, hoping Villa would bite at £25m. It’s less of a guess that VT would then feature many ‘ripped off’ and ‘pants down’ complaints. There’s no pleasing all.

When the player is proven good and the owning club aren’t in a ‘fire sale’ situation, it’s near impossible to pick up what initially appears to be a bargain. If Heaton gains us an unexpected extra 10 points over the next season or two, £8m could prove a good price.

Completely agree, if we stay up and Heaton plays the majority of games that's worth the £8m alone, anything else is bonus, everything he brings in training, the experience, maybe even a solid back up for the last few years of his career.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

9 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

So would you say that no-one has ever overpaid or underpaid for a player, because the price that is accepted by the selling club is their correct worth?

The £20m for Butland argument is a different question entirely. There could be an alternative Premier League keeper that would cost less than Heaton, which would give us more flexibility this summer.

Why are a couple of handfuls of posters expressing that they think we've overpaid getting so much stick?

The question is not being framed as "could Aston Villa have gotten better value elsewhere" though. It is being framed as an overpay for Tom Heaton specifically. In this case and (almost) all cases players are exchanged at market rate, the rate at which the seller and the buyer reach agreement. We have to assume they have negotiated the fee, no? As long as they did their due diligence we got him at the only price we could have gotten him for.

If somebody can find me an arguably top tier Premier League standard goalkeeper at £8m or less then I'm all for the debate around value. 

I don't know why people are getting stick, I'm not here for that

[brommy]

22 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

So would you say that no-one has ever overpaid or underpaid for a player, because the price that is accepted by the selling club is their correct worth?

The £20m for Butland argument is a different question entirely. There could be an alternative Premier League keeper that would cost less than Heaton, which would give us more flexibility this summer.

Why are a couple of handfuls of posters expressing that they think we've overpaid getting so much stick?

Is it valid to state whether a fee is too high or a bargain before the player has proven what their worth is for the club over a decent amount of their contract?

[striker]

Great signing by the Villa and two fingers shown to clubs who thought they’d take Villa to the cleaners over extortionate fees.

[Rob182]

3 minutes ago, brommy said:

Is it valid to state whether a fee is too high or a bargain before the player has proven what their worth is for the club over a decent amount of their contract?

When you've seen how said player plays in the league you're in for 2+ seasons, I'd say it's valid to have an opinion on it, yes.

Like everyone else who's questioned the fee, I'm happy with Heaton as a signing, and I've said there are countless positives to the addition. It's just a minor negative, in my opinion, as I think a player of his age, position, contract length and 'surplus to requirements' status at his current club should cost less than £8m.

However, I will add, that if this is the way the market is going now, then (if we stay up for a few seasons), I look forward to seeing us bringing in similar figures for players in the twilight of their career when we don't want them anymore. Essentially this means that if a player is still good enough for the league, you should never let their contract run out.

[midian]

Great signing for decent money,alot better than Butland is.

[brommy]

1 minute ago, striker said:

Great signing by the Villa and two fingers shown to clubs who thought they’d take Villa to the cleaners over extortionate fees.

I’d like to agree with both sentiments but with but after my recent post, I’d better add to the bold - only time will tell! 

[Junxs]

39 minutes ago, Teale's 'tache said:

I think most people, myself included wanted Butland, but from what we've heard Stoke moved the goalposts and asked for way too much. I don't think we should be held to ransom and clearly neither do the owners, don't be surprised if we are back in for Butland next summer and if Stoke don't go up I imagine the price will be far more reasonable.

Heaton is a more than capable stop gap and at a reasonable price, seems like good business to me.

I agree we shouldn't be allowed be to taken for a ride like Stoke tried to do to us, but still feel disappointed we couldn't complete the deal as I felt it was nailed on once they signed his replacement.

However I don't think we'll go back in for him next season as we have Heaton now for the next few years, wouldn't make sense to have 2 goalkeepers of that calibre at the same time. The only reason we'd go back in for Butland would be if Heaton suffers another long term injury, so I hope that doesn't happen.

[KentVillan]

1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Anyone know how good he is with the ball at his feet?

Pre season seems to show that we will look to play from the back and Steer has had a few iffy moments....the rule change on goal kicks (with players no longer having to be outside of the box) will also bring added pressure on goalies as opposition players will be right on top of them.

Can only assume he’s got a good range of passing else if struggle to see why we’d be signing him.

 

24 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

Can opposition players go in the penalty box for goal kicks now? I assumed it was just teammates. 

Opposition players still have to start outside the box, but if the goal kick fails to clear the penalty area, they are now allowed to dash in and collect it before it leaves the area.

This actually makes short goal kicks easier for keepers. Brings a lot less pressure when you have defenders like ours, who can take on the responsibility of working the ball out of the box.

Obviously we need a keeper who is comfortable with the ball at his feet in open play, but I don't think the new rules affect that.

Edited July 31, 2019 by KentVillan

[Rob182]

19 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

The question is not being framed as "could Aston Villa have gotten better value elsewhere" though. It is being framed as an overpay for Tom Heaton specifically. In this case and (almost) all cases players are exchanged at market rate, the rate at which the seller and the buyer reach agreement. We have to assume they have negotiated the fee, no? As long as they did their due diligence we got him at the only price we could have gotten him for.

If somebody can find me an arguably top tier Premier League standard goalkeeper at £8m or less then I'm all for the debate around value. 

I don't know why people are getting stick, I'm not here for that

Regarding negotiation: As someone else mentioned a few pages ago, I think Villa saw a good starting price as £4-5m, which we originally offered. The fact that we've had to basically double that fee, solidifies my opinion that we've (albeit slightly) overpaid. Whereas others will say that our initial offer was unrealistic. Maybe the truth of his value is somewhere in-between, and his value is around £6m? Who knows.

On the subject of another Premier League standard goalkeeper for £8m or less. Neil Etheridge is the only other one of a similar value that comes to mind. His cost was talked about as £10m-11m, but I think he has 3-4 years extra shelf-life compared to Heaton, but is less proven.

[Guest av1]

Very good keeper at a sensible price. 

Good work Villa. 

[Teale's 'tache]

3 minutes ago, Junxs said:

I agree we shouldn't be allowed be to taken for a ride like Stoke tried to do to us, but still feel disappointed we couldn't complete the deal as I felt it was nailed on once they signed his replacement.

However I don't think we'll go back in for him next season as we have Heaton now for the next few years, wouldn't make sense to have 2 goalkeepers of that calibre at the same time. The only reason we'd go back in for Butland would be if Heaton suffers another long term injury, so I hope that doesn't happen.

I think we will, old experienced keeper as back up with younger quality keeper as first choice is an often used model. We can agree to disagree on that though.

Stoke wanted way too much by the sounds of it and Butland didn't want to force a move, we've done the right thing and gone elsewhere, he's not the only keeper that could improve us, I'm not disappointed, we were never going to fill every position for the next 10 years in one transfer window, some compromises were always going to be made.

[Vive_La_Villa]

I like Steer. I think he would have been ok in goal. But the fact we’ve signed a much better keeper gives me confidence we want to strengthen in every area and arent taking any chances. 

Striker needs to be next and then we’re good to go. 

Edited July 31, 2019 by Vive_La_Villa

[HeyAnty]

So can he pass out from the back?

[Junxs]

4 minutes ago, Teale's 'tache said:

I think we will, old experienced keeper as back up with younger quality keeper as first choice is an often used model. We can agree to disagree on that though.

I agree that model exists, but its usually for older keepers like 36+ 

Theres still 3 years before Heaton is classed and an 'old' keeper. 33 is absolute prime for a keeper imo

[Teale's 'tache]

5 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

Regarding negotiation: As someone else mentioned a few pages ago, I think Villa saw a good starting price as £4-5m, which we originally offered. The fact that we've had to basically double that fee, solidifies my opinion that we've (albeit slightly) overpaid. Whereas others will say that our initial offer was unrealistic. Maybe the truth of his value is somewhere in-between, and his value is around £6m? Who knows.

On the subject of another Premier League standard goalkeeper for £8m or less. Neil Etheridge is the only other one of a similar value that comes to mind. His cost was talked about as £10m-11m, but I think he has 3-4 years extra shelf-life compared to Heaton, but is less proven.

I seem to remember that when the 'press' were saying we bid £4-5m for Heaton, Dyche came out the next day and stated in no uncertain terms that they'd received no bids.

I'm not convinced we started the bidding that low.

 

[AVTuco]

19 minutes ago, brommy said:

I’d like to agree with both sentiments but with but after my recent post, I’d better add to the bold - only time will tell! 

It would be sensible to just agree now.