villan-scott Posted June 26, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted June 26, 2019 7 hours ago, Wezbid said: Why is £20-25m mad for Butland yet the same for Wesley was being hailed? They're both really important positions. Butland has shown his worth in the top flight and had a good season despite the rest of the team not. Butland is a far safer bet than Wesley yet far more questioned. Is the top league of Belgium that much better than the Championship? I don't say all that to demean the Wesley transfer, more try and put some perspective into things as a whole. Just like Grealish isn't a Championship player despite playing there the last 3 years, neither is Butland. He'd be 30/31 if he signed at the end of his contract. There's absolutely re-sale value there as a keeper since they go way longer. In 4 years time, average keepers in the UK top flight will be closer to £50m. Danny Ward went for £12m, previously and he's barely done sod all. Because one is a Brazilian called Wesley and the other is from the Midlands with a name like Butland. Football logic! Although I agree, I’m happy to spend 20m or so on a top rate keeper, we are clearly showing intent, let’s enjoy it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 7 hours ago, Wezbid said: Why is £20-25m mad for Butland yet the same for Wesley was being hailed? They're both really important positions. Butland has shown his worth in the top flight and had a good season despite the rest of the team not. Butland is a far safer bet than Wesley yet far more questioned. Is the top league of Belgium that much better than the Championship? I don't say all that to demean the Wesley transfer, more try and put some perspective into things as a whole. Just like Grealish isn't a Championship player despite playing there the last 3 years, neither is Butland. He'd be 30/31 if he signed at the end of his contract. There's absolutely re-sale value there as a keeper since they go way longer. In 4 years time, average keepers in the UK top flight will be closer to £50m. Danny Ward went for £12m, previously and he's barely done sod all. Just to play Devil's Advocate: Strikers generally cost a lot more than keepers, so it's not that simple. Also, Butland has that 'Premier League experience', that some people crave for. So, again, that probably warrants a slight price increase. If we sign Butland for £20m, wouldn't he be in the top 20/top 30 most expensive goalkeepers EVER? I don't know, I'm just guessing. Whereas, Wesley for £22m is probably way, wayyyyy down the list of most expensive strikers ever. I kind of agree with you post. Some people have questioned £20m for Butland. But, then again, some people have also questioned £20/22m for an inexperienced, Brazilian striker. So, yeah, it's a fairly pointless comparison, overall. FWIW, I'm happy with both potential signings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 (edited) Fwiw I think £22m (hopefully he'll live up to the price tag) is way over the top for Wesley but strikers are more expensive than keepers Not wanting to spend £20m on Butland is down to him having a £10m premium on him because he is English and playing for a English club. And no those are not the going prices in today's football. £20m for a keeper is still extremely expensive and £22m for a fairly unknown striker in a small-ish league is still quite a lot of money. Edited June 26, 2019 by sne 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, Rob182 said: Just to play Devil's Advocate: Strikers generally cost a lot more than keepers, so it's not that simple. Also, Butland has that 'Premier League experience', that some people crave for. So, again, that probably warrants a slight price increase. If we sign Butland for £20m, wouldn't he be in the top 20/top 30 most expensive goalkeepers EVER? I don't know, I'm just guessing. Whereas, Wesley for £22m is probably way, wayyyyy down the list of most expensive strikers ever. I kind of agree with you post. Some people have questioned £20m for Butland. But, then again, some people have also questioned £20/22m for an inexperienced, Brazilian striker. So, yeah, it's a fairly pointless comparison, overall. FWIW, I'm happy with both potential signings. He'd be the 7th or 8th most expensive keeper of all times. Depending on what list you look at. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyexists Posted June 26, 2019 Author VT Supporter Share Posted June 26, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, sne said: He'd be the 7th or 8th most expensive keeper of all times. Depending on what list you look at. ... but some of those transfers happened 10 years ago, so inflation (and football inflation which has been insane for years) means he’s probably not even top 10 or even 15. I get your point though Edit: Toldo was €28m in 2001, and Buffon was €51m in the same year! Mental money at the time. Edited June 26, 2019 by alreadyexists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, alreadyexists said: ... but some of those transfers happened 10 years ago, so inflation (and football inflation which has been insane for years) means he’s probably not even top 10 or even 15. I get your point though Edit: Toldo was €28m in 2001, and Buffon was €51m in the same year! Mental money at the time. Oh absolutely. The money has gone full retard. And every quality keeper that moves now will automatically move to the top 5 of that list. It's just that is Butland top 50 in the world, top 100, top 200 among keepers? £20m is still very, very much money even for us. I think we would be paying well over the odds if we give Stoke £20m or more. Edit: Buffon to Juve possibly the best transfer ever made still Edited June 26, 2019 by sne 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 7 minutes ago, alreadyexists said: ... but some of those transfers happened 10 years ago, so inflation (and football inflation which has been insane for years) means he’s probably not even top 10 or even 15. I get your point though Edit: Toldo was €28m in 2001, and Buffon was €51m in the same year! Mental money at the time. Buffon was £32 million at the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 Butland was one of the reasons Stoke went down 2 seasons ago as they replaced Grant who was in better form, no team touched him and he looked shaky at times in the Championship. Would say 8-10 million is expensive for him. Is better keepers available not that its a position we are desperate for somebody 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson1 Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_b Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 Obviously not followed Butlands career but wasn't he a top class keeper at one point? Surely signing him would be a coup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyexists Posted June 26, 2019 Author VT Supporter Share Posted June 26, 2019 7 minutes ago, Zatman said: Buffon was £32 million at the time Yep. Which was €51m according to Wiki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 Just now, Tommo_b said: Obviously not followed Butlands career but wasn't he a top class keeper at one point? Surely signing him would be a coup? He has 2 PL seasons to his names and been loaned out and playing lower league football the rest. Still young-ish for a keeper thou. Never been a top keeper but a bright prospect when young. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, Tommo_b said: Obviously not followed Butlands career but wasn't he a top class keeper at one point? Surely signing him would be a coup? top class is a bit much, he has only had 2 full top flight seasons and 1 was the relegation season when he was woeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 It's official then. Still not signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 26, 2019 Moderator Share Posted June 26, 2019 17 minutes ago, sne said: He has 2 PL seasons to his names and been loaned out and playing lower league football the rest. Still young-ish for a keeper thou. Never been a top keeper but a bright prospect when young. 3 full PL seasons but has played 122 PL games over 5 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: 3 full PL seasons but has played 122 PL games over 5 seasons. Both Transfermarkt and Wiki have it at 2 full seasons and 77 PL games in total but it's the Internet so might be wrong. Sure you not counting this Stoke Championship season in those 122? Edited June 26, 2019 by sne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrim Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 I rate Butland as the best English keeper. I dont know where this woeful stuff is coming from but he's kept Stoke in games they had no right to be in whenever I've seen him. A top keeper? Yes, definitely. If supposedly World class keepers are changing hands north of 50m now, Butland at 20ish is good value. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted June 26, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted June 26, 2019 5 minutes ago, Mazrim said: I rate Butland as the best English keeper. I dont know where this woeful stuff is coming from but he's kept Stoke in games they had no right to be in whenever I've seen him. A top keeper? Yes, definitely. If supposedly World class keepers are changing hands north of 50m now, Butland at 20ish is good value. havent seen much of him but this is good enough for me :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 26, 2019 Moderator Share Posted June 26, 2019 10 minutes ago, sne said: Both Transfermarkt and Wiki have it at 2 full seasons and 77 PL games in total but it's the Internet so might be wrong. Sure you not counting this Stoke Championship season in those 122? Just going from his Wiki page 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 26, 2019 Moderator Share Posted June 26, 2019 8 minutes ago, Mazrim said: I rate Butland as the best English keeper. I dont know where this woeful stuff is coming from but he's kept Stoke in games they had no right to be in whenever I've seen him. A top keeper? Yes, definitely. If supposedly World class keepers are changing hands north of 50m now, Butland at 20ish is good value. Stoke player of the season I believe.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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