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Wesley Moraes


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1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

I think someone who would turn their nose up for tammy has no brain personally not the other way around.

Why isnt he starting over watkins? If watkins hits shit form is watkins still going to play? What about if ollie gets injured. Who do you we have ? Wesley who hasnt played in over 12 months? Or how about davis who has one goal all season?

But yeah its brainless to sign tammy 😂

It is brainless to sign Tammy. You don't spend 40 mil on a backup when we desperately need upgrades at LW, maybe RW, in midfield, depth for the defence. 

I'd much rather play wesley or Davis upfront or traore and el ghazi since they can both play there than have to rely on Hause or Engels for extended periods of time especially given how injury prone they are.

Besides Tammy would cost a stupid amount fir what he would offer. If we do sign another striker it will be a 20-21 year old with a view of them getting better and potentially replacing watkins or playing in another position someone like Malen. Not someone who can exclusively play upfront and has barely any ball skills. He is damn good at knocking in goals but we already have someone who does that and he gets hated on practically every game. 

Or a stop gap striker like cavani for united. 

Edited by MotoMkali
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1 hour ago, tom_avfc said:

This is true but I don't think we should be signing a £40m striker on the off chance that Watkins isn't as good as he is this season.

If we had all the money in the world to spend then I'd be all for it, although still wary as to how we'd keep Abraham happy with limited minutes. As it is I think there's about 5 positions where I see a need to spend money before we start splashing out on a backup centre forward.

Yes, Watkins has played on the left before but I've seen nothing this season to suggest that we should be exploring that seriously as he has been as good as most strikers in the league playing through the middle.

As for Wesley, I'm not sure why we'd write him off already. He's got the perfect opportunity to have a full pre-season where the coaching staff can have a proper look at him and make the judgment as to whether he's likely to get back to the level required. The fact that he's been on the bench this season suggests to me that Smith isn't writing him off just yet.

Yeah i guess it all depends on what the budget is. Id its 50m then yeah i could be inclined to agree but reports seem to suggest the owners are sownding big again.

Ollie has had some very bad game though as well lets not forget that.  Thankfully its been less than more and thats expected from all players. 

Im not writing big wes off personally as i like him but i have deep reservations about what sort of player he will be now after that major injury.  Thats why i think give him a loan see how he gets on if he can gwt back to what he was.

 

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6 hours ago, weedman said:

I mean the circumstances around Steer and Wesley are clearly not the same though, you must be able to see that? 

I'm not saying the club should never sell him regardless, I'm saying if the options are 1) sell at an enormous loss / basically give him away or 2) loan out until his contract expires and he leaves on a free then neither of those options make as much sense as 3) keep him here and see if he can still reach the potential we saw in him when we signed him.

He's only played half a season for us, in a disjointed team in a new league in a new country. In that time he did...ok, nothing spectacular, but to completely write him - and the 20 odd million he cost us - off at the first opportunity is just crazy in my opinion. Its the equivalent of shipping Sanson off in the summer on a free transfer because he didn't do much then got injured after signing for £15m

My point was they didn't take a chance on steer being good enough. I don't think they will on Wesley.

I don't see him getting enough games to prove the issue one way or the other. I don't see any options other than sell him at loss or his contract runs down via a series of loans. 

 

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I was watching him on the sidelines today, he was getting involved, reacting to the match and the chances being created. He probably needs another full season before we see the best of him. Maybe offer to Spuds on loan 🤣

Think it would do him good to go to half decent team in championship on loan next season

Edited by Talldarkandransome
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1 hour ago, YLN said:

I'm not understanding this thread at all. 

Wesley scored 6 goals in his first half season in the premier league at the age of 22. Then he had a bad injury, and now he's back ready for full team action, and he's being written off, and being considered for sale/loan/knackers yard. I'm really missing the logic behind this train of thought. 

What are we basing the idea of him being a wreck now on? Our collective understanding about the recovery from ACL rupture? His 10 minute cameo against West Brom where he had a shot on target?

I am lost completely. He's an unbelievable option to have as an alternative back up striker to Watkins. Is it that we're deciding between a too good for the championship Abraham, and Wesley?

Joined in on @villalad21logic ❤️ 

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32 minutes ago, Talldarkandransome said:

I was watching him on the sidelines today, he was getting involved, reacting to the match and the chances being created. He probably needs another full season before we see the best of him. Maybe offer to Spuds on loan 🤣

Think it would do him good to go to half decent team in championship on loan next season

Loaning him to the Championship, much less a " half decent " Championship team, wouldn't do him, or us any good. I might even suggest it would be a bit of a pisstake, unless it were one of the Title contenders.

You don't improve him, or his value overall, by dumping him to the Championship IMO.

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2 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Loaning him to the Championship, much less a " half decent " Championship team, wouldn't do him, or us any good. I might even suggest it would be a bit of a pisstake, unless it were one of the Title contenders.

You don't improve him, or his value overall, by dumping him to the Championship IMO.

Yeah Wes either has to play and get some minutes or we have to just let the lad go and do his own thing.

He approved he could score at this level before and hopefully be rediscovers that, I just don't think Smith is willing to take Watkins off while ever Watkins is everywhere like he is. It's a tough one for Wesley but he should be the second striker if we're not buying a striker this summer.

Who knows what's going to happen but we Have Watkins, Wesley, Davis for three strikers then I've a feeling we may even see Barry and Young get some minutes next season in the first team. I am not worried one bit about our striking presence, in fact out of Wesley or Davis I would sell one or both of them and just bring Barry and Young on the subs bench. Watkins plays all the time, anyone would think he's got goal keeper fitness in him where a keeper hardly every sees an injury and the second keeper never sees anytime. 

We have options come summer and if it were me, I would sell Davis see how Wesley goes till January, if it doesn't work out I'd sell and just bring Barry and Young in to get minutes when Watkins is subbed off.

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5 hours ago, YLN said:

I'm not understanding this thread at all. 

Wesley scored 6 goals in his first half season in the premier league at the age of 22. Then he had a bad injury, and now he's back ready for full team action, and he's being written off, and being considered for sale/loan/knackers yard. I'm really missing the logic behind this train of thought. 

What are we basing the idea of him being a wreck now on? Our collective understanding about the recovery from ACL rupture? His 10 minute cameo against West Brom where he had a shot on target?

I am lost completely. He's an unbelievable option to have as an alternative back up striker to Watkins. Is it that we're deciding between a too good for the championship Abraham, and Wesley?

First of all, he scored 5 goals and his goal record is mediocre at best. He had an average strike rate of 1 goal every 350 minute, that's not even average. And his goal scoring is the best thing about him. Are we watching the same player here? Unbelievable option as an alternative back up? He's no where near the striker Watkins is.

How difficult is it to understand that we don't think a player who was never very good to begin with for a team battling relegation, probably won't be good enough for a team that's trying to get into the top 10 after being sidelined for more than an entire year with an injury at what should be a crucial time in his development? Of course nothing is certain about the future, but what's so absurd about that opinion? 

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Just now, ozvillafan said:

Not absurd - but definitely narrow.

He's not Watkins. And he won't ever be.

He also relocated from the other side of the world and was surrounded by a team of PL virgins at the time. Players like Targett, Konsa and even Trez and El Ghazi have improved over time - time that Wesley hasn't had yet due to injury.

Why so quick to get rid, then? Our signings, by and large, have been good (with the odd exception). Let's give Wesley the chance to prove if he's good or not.

I feel like I've seen enough of him already. He may have only played for half a season, but he played a lot of minutes before he got injured and he looked poor most of the time. Of course nothing is certain about the future, shit players may suddenly turn to great players the next season and vice versa. But when you factor in the horrific injury as well, I just don't think a universe where Wesley suddenly becomes good enough as a likely one. 

And to be clear, I don't want to get rid of him, there's no point in doing so. But if there's any hope of recouping what we paid for him, its going to be by send him out on loan and hope he impresses enough to actually challenge Watkins one day. Because I doubt sitting on the bench and being brought on for the final 10 minutes occasionally for the next season is going to do anything for his development. Watkins is too important to the squad that Smith just never subs him off. If we want any hope of getting him to his potential, or even back to where he once was if the injury has affected him that badly, its going to have be on loan where he can have a run of games. 

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7 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Loaning him to the Championship, much less a " half decent " Championship team, wouldn't do him, or us any good. I might even suggest it would be a bit of a pisstake, unless it were one of the Title contenders.

You don't improve him, or his value overall, by dumping him to the Championship IMO.

When I say half decent I mean promotion contenders

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9 hours ago, YLN said:

I'm not understanding this thread at all. 

Wesley scored 6 goals in his first half season in the premier league at the age of 22. Then he had a bad injury, and now he's back ready for full team action, and he's being written off, and being considered for sale/loan/knackers yard. I'm really missing the logic behind this train of thought. 

What are we basing the idea of him being a wreck now on? Our collective understanding about the recovery from ACL rupture? His 10 minute cameo against West Brom where he had a shot on target?

I am lost completely. He's an unbelievable option to have as an alternative back up striker to Watkins. Is it that we're deciding between a too good for the championship Abraham, and Wesley?

Wesley will want to play first team football somewhere. Unless Watkins gets injured that most likely won't be with us.

If he stays as back up - he probably wouldn't sign another contract. So a season on the bench with the odd appearance looms.

Or we could loan him out, maybe he does reasonable and we recoup some of the fee (most likely scenario).

I really don't see what your struggling to understand. Unless of course you think a fit Wesley will score more goals than Watkins ?

 

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4 hours ago, Enda said:

No chance, sold them years ago mate.

Excellent, well they're about to make a comeback by looks of it in the form of a second Life at Villa 

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4 hours ago, Laughable Chimp said:

First of all, he scored 5 goals and his goal record is mediocre at best. He had an average strike rate of 1 goal every 350 minute, that's not even average. And his goal scoring is the best thing about him. Are we watching the same player here? Unbelievable option as an alternative back up? He's no where near the striker Watkins is.

How difficult is it to understand that we don't think a player who was never very good to begin with for a team battling relegation, probably won't be good enough for a team that's trying to get into the top 10 after being sidelined for more than an entire year with an injury at what should be a crucial time in his development? Of course nothing is certain about the future, but what's so absurd about that opinion? 

Better strike record than Timo Werner, bet people would take him at Villa

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if it was Jan i would definitely understand sending him on loan to get game time and match sharpness.

i would have thought a full preseason and some friendly games will tell Dean and co whether he can put the injury behind him mentally and physically and kick on.

It might be that they need to loan him to get competitive games to answer that question, the issue is if we insist on one up front then he won't get any game time (apart from the cups if we manage to stay in them this time), plus I imagine we will sign a shiny new striker, so competition for places will go up.

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6 hours ago, Laughable Chimp said:

I feel like I've seen enough of him already. He may have only played for half a season, but he played a lot of minutes before he got injured and he looked poor most of the time. Of course nothing is certain about the future, shit players may suddenly turn to great players the next season and vice versa. But when you factor in the horrific injury as well, I just don't think a universe where Wesley suddenly becomes good enough as a likely one. 

And to be clear, I don't want to get rid of him, there's no point in doing so. But if there's any hope of recouping what we paid for him, its going to be by send him out on loan and hope he impresses enough to actually challenge Watkins one day. Because I doubt sitting on the bench and being brought on for the final 10 minutes occasionally for the next season is going to do anything for his development. Watkins is too important to the squad that Smith just never subs him off. If we want any hope of getting him to his potential, or even back to where he once was if the injury has affected him that badly, its going to have be on loan where he can have a run of games. 

Playing in the current Villa team and playing in the one he played in are two very different things though. Lots of the players that struggled then have since improved massively. Wes has not been given that chance yet as he had that clearing in the woods Ben Mee mash his knee up for him. Could still turn out to be very important for us, he might not as well but he should be given the chance so we can all find out.

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13 hours ago, YLN said:

I'm not understanding this thread at all. 

Wesley scored 6 goals in his first half season in the premier league at the age of 22. Then he had a bad injury, and now he's back ready for full team action, and he's being written off, and being considered for sale/loan/knackers yard. I'm really missing the logic behind this train of thought. 

What are we basing the idea of him being a wreck now on? Our collective understanding about the recovery from ACL rupture? His 10 minute cameo against West Brom where he had a shot on target?

I am lost completely. He's an unbelievable option to have as an alternative back up striker to Watkins. Is it that we're deciding between a too good for the championship Abraham, and Wesley?

The slate is clean and I'm excited to have him back, but in no way is he an unbelievable option as back up striker. He's a guy who understandably struggled with Premier league football and has just had a serious injury. 

We've also seen how important Watkins attributes are to the way we play, and those attributes are some of Wesley's main areas of weakness. 

I see him as a viable 3rd choice option next year and I hope he can be given time to progress now, rather than having to be our saviour last season. 

But we all saw last year. He was a very poor player for most of the time and did little to impact on the team. 

Edited by DCJonah
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