Wesley Moraes

[sparrow1988]

21 minutes ago, TRO said:

should never have happened.....but it did.

I honestly wasn't expecting an answer to that. It was meant as very tongue in cheek.

Your response though got me thinking... Will heading in football be viewed similary (should never have happened.....but it did) in a few decades? Especially from the time that the evidence has become available, say from 2015 onwards or so. I can understand giving football a pass up until then but now, it really needs to be taking action or at least doing extensive research in to the subejct.

[TRO]

6 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said:

I honestly wasn't expecting an answer to that. It was meant as very tongue in cheek.

Your response though got me thinking... Will heading in football be viewed similary (should never have happened.....but it did) in a few decades? Especially from the time that the evidence has become available, say from 2015 onwards or so. I can understand giving football a pass up until then but now, it really needs to be taking action or at least doing extensive research in to the subejct.

I really don't see how heading the ball, can be outlawed, unless the game takes on a whole different meaning.

Corners and set pieces as we know them would become, no more a threat, than a throw in.

I guess, its a generation thing, but some of the most exciting goals and assists I have seen has been from aerial balls.

Yeah, I know it was said Tongue in cheek....trouble is it is so sensitive these days and understandably so.

[Mjvilla]

12 minutes ago, TRO said:

You have shown me nothing.

Nick, this is getting silly now....you can disagree, to your hearts content, but your suppositions are way off.....I mentioned those players, so you know who they are, if I mentioned some obscure player, you would baulk at the point, based on not knowing who my examlpe was( you have done the same to argue your point).....you have turned my point, in to your own definition of it.....what you say I allude to, is wrong, its more about what you think, dressing it up to say, its what I think.....isn't that a strawman?

The height it takes to be dominant in the air.....I guess you will agree, that 5'8/5'9 is kinda difficult.

You are now off on a tangent of buying the best strikers in world football, where has that come from?.....You.

let me remind you of my point, before you disappear more into  your own interpretation of it......I said "at 6'3 and No 9 you would think he would be decent in the air".....from that you have managed to concoct a compendium of alternative counter points.......you should be on "countdown" you would do well.

 

I do agree with your points, and you'd certainly expect Wes to be better in the air. Hopefully it's something they were / are working on.

But the bolded bit just reminds me of Crouch. He was pretty hopeless in the air really. (although I seem to remember him scoring a debut goal with his head for us, Graham Taylor's first game - second stint? I was there but may be completely wrong however). Despite being 6'6 or whatever he was and a striker, he was shit in the air but actually really good on the deck. Couldn't be more opposite to what you'd expect. Always just makes me smile.

[Vive_La_Villa]

Did you know Shearer only scored 26 headed goals in his career? I thought it would have been higher.

Anyway going off topic now so I’ll end with hopefully Wesley can still have a career at the highest level  

[TRO]

43 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

I do agree with your points, and you'd certainly expect Wes to be better in the air. Hopefully it's something they were / are working on.

But the bolded bit just reminds me of Crouch. He was pretty hopeless in the air really. (although I seem to remember him scoring a debut goal with his head for us, Graham Taylor's first game - second stint? I was there but may be completely wrong however). Despite being 6'6 or whatever he was and a striker, he was shit in the air but actually really good on the deck. Couldn't be more opposite to what you'd expect. Always just makes me smile.

I disagree....I don't know, what the stats say, can't be bothered to look.....I have seen Pete score some really good headed goals and moreover, he was a threat.

I agree with Brian cloughs comments "if god wanted the ball in the air, he would have put grass up there"......but the practicalities of the game have borne out some magical moments from headed goals...they are exciting and game changing.

Personally, I don't think as a club we put enough emphasis or focus on it as we did years ago.....some of  Peter Withes and Andy Grays headers were sublime...and game changers.

Edited March 29, 2021 by TRO

[sparrow1988]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

I really don't see how heading the ball, can be outlawed, unless the game takes on a whole different meaning.

Corners and set pieces as we know them would become, no more a threat, than a throw in.

I guess, its a generation thing, but some of the most exciting goals and assists I have seen has been from aerial balls.

Yeah, I know it was said Tongue in cheek....trouble is it is so sensitive these days and understandably so.

Oh don't get me wrong. I love a good headed goal. It's just I think that it needs to be looked at. At the end of the day, the health of the players is more important.

Anyway, we're straying well off topic so hopefully we get back to a bit of form before Wes' introduction so that he can have a proper run in a team performing well so we can finally put to bed the debate whether he's any good or not.

[nick76]

24 minutes ago, TRO said:

You have shown me nothing.

You said that heading was key and I showed you with facts, top Premiership strikers in Salah and Vardy who arent headers of the ball

Your argument back was, well that 6ft 3 striker should be able to head the ball, which wasnt the discussion, you went off point not me.

You then said that three top world class strikers can do it and probably a little cheekily i said great if we could get them for £20m like we paid for Wes, then great.  If we had paid the price those players would cost I would expect them to be able to header.  If Wes had this ability plus other abilities, he wouldnt have come to us and certainly wouldnt have cost £20m would he?  We obviously brought him because he was a certain style and certain price.  It wasnt me talking about the best strikers in the world first, you brought up Kane, Lewandowski and Haaland not me as a comparison of good headers

Then I said we dont play that way (I know we should have it in our locker but we dont currently for the last two seasons) so it doesnt make much of a difference does it.

 

[TRO]

8 minutes ago, nick76 said:

You said that heading was key and I showed you with facts, top Premiership strikers in Salah and Vardy who arent headers of the ball

Your argument back was, well that 6ft 3 striker should be able to head the ball, which wasnt the discussion, you went off point not me.

You then said that three top world class strikers can do it and probably a little cheekily i said great if we could get them for £20m like we paid for Wes, then great.  If we had paid the price those players would cost I would expect them to be able to header.  If Wes had this ability plus other abilities, he wouldnt have come to us and certainly wouldnt have cost £20m would he?  We obviously brought him because he was a certain style and certain price.  It wasnt me talking about the best strikers in the world first, you brought up Kane, Lewandowski and Haaland not me as a comparison of good headers

Then I said we dont play that way (I know we should have it in our locker but we dont currently for the last two seasons) so it doesnt make much of a difference does it.

 

but Wes hasn't got the other skills of Vardy and Salah, so he can't use them......its horses for courses....In the main, your stature dictates, what sort of player you will be and where to work on your skills.

I have explained in the previous post, why I mentioned those players, for explanation purposes only, you chose to eek out alternatives.

I couldn't give a kippers dick, which way we play, but with the amount of crosses we muster, i would doubt that.......I think a 6'3 striker should be decent in the air to play at this level.....I'm done ,Nick....I have made my point and sticking to it.

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by TRO

[MrBlack]

Club insta post suggesting he's not far off!

[nick76]

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

but Wes hasn't got the other skills of Vardy and Salah, so he can't use them......its horses for courses.

wasnt your point though was it

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

I have explained in the previous post, why I mentioned those players, for explanation purposes only, you chose to eek out alternatives

you picked out those players that can do it (and they can do many other things) hence why they are the best in the world I picked out players that werent good headers but still top of their game

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

I couldn't give a kippers dick, which way we play

That's key though isnt it, we dont play to a high cross into the box striker style

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

I'm done ,Nick....I have made my point and sticking to it.

Great!  Sadly your point was wrong but and I showed you why but you stick to your point

edit (always love a good gif)

Edited March 29, 2021 by nick76

[Vive_La_Villa]

I do wonder what they saw in him to spend 22 million. Whilst his goals return was decent he hardly looked a world beater at Brugge. They must have seen potential more than anything else.

[nick76]

7 minutes ago, TRO said:

but Wes hasn't got the other skills of Vardy and Salah, so he can't use them......its horses for courses....In the main, your stature dictates, what sort of player you will be and where to work on your skills.

I have explained in the previous post, why I mentioned those players, for explanation purposes only, you chose to eek out alternatives.

I couldn't give a kippers dick, which way we play, but with the amount of crosses we muster, i would doubt that.......I think a 6'3 striker should be decent in the air to play at this level.....I'm done ,Nick....I have made my point and sticking to it.

 

By the way, I would love nothing better than a good header of the ball and us to be crossing in those balls.  Having a Duncan Ferguson, Shearer or just somebody like that really has the fans going and is brilliant to see.  I miss those days, i really do!

[nick76]

1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I do wonder what they saw in him to spend 22 million. Whilst his goals return was decent he hardly looked a world beater at Brugge. They must have seen potential more than anything else.

It's a strange one and I'm a big fan of Wes, it does still seem a strange pick given we were new to the league, he would need a settling down period and all that and his style wasnt complimentary to a newly promoted team. 

I think that's why I'm more excited now because we are more established and his style, with a more on the ground type of team and having Jack and Ollie around him will be really interesting to see.  If he doesnt show it then, then we have a problem but I saw enough in him before his injury that I think he could do really well in this current team, probably next season.

[MaVilla]

[TRO]

13 minutes ago, nick76 said:

wasnt your point though was it

you picked out those players that can do it (and they can do many other things) hence why they are the best in the world I picked out players that werent good headers but still top of their game

That's key though isnt it, we dont play to a high cross into the box striker style

Great!  Sadly your point was wrong but and I showed you why but you stick to your point

edit (always love a good gif)

Have it your way, Nick...It will make you feel better.

[Follyfoot]

48 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

I do agree with your points, and you'd certainly expect Wes to be better in the air. Hopefully it's something they were / are working on.

But the bolded bit just reminds me of Crouch. He was pretty hopeless in the air really. (although I seem to remember him scoring a debut goal with his head for us, Graham Taylor's first game - second stint? I was there but may be completely wrong however). Despite being 6'6 or whatever he was and a striker, he was shit in the air but actually really good on the deck. Couldn't be more opposite to what you'd expect. Always just makes me smile.

Looping header against Newcastle, Sir Bobby was very complimentary about him after saying he caused them all sorts of problems. Can not believe that was 19 years ago  

[TRO]

15 minutes ago, nick76 said:

By the way, I would love nothing better than a good header of the ball and us to be crossing in those balls.  Having a Duncan Ferguson, Shearer or just somebody like that really has the fans going and is brilliant to see.  I miss those days, i really do!

Me too.....its an area of the game, I look at a lot......even midfield....players can played in a lot from good headers, it opens play up.

well, we put a lot of crosses in.

[nick76]

9 minutes ago, TRO said:

Have it your way, Nick...It will make you feel better.

Sorry, don’t want no beef with you, we see it a different way.  With both want the best for Villa that’s all that matters.

[Dave-R]

55 minutes ago, nick76 said:

You said that heading was key and I showed you with facts, top Premiership strikers in Salah and Vardy who arent headers of the ball

Your argument back was, well that 6ft 3 striker should be able to head the ball, which wasnt the discussion, you went off point not me.

You then said that three top world class strikers can do it and probably a little cheekily i said great if we could get them for £20m like we paid for Wes, then great.  If we had paid the price those players would cost I would expect them to be able to header.  If Wes had this ability plus other abilities, he wouldnt have come to us and certainly wouldnt have cost £20m would he?  We obviously brought him because he was a certain style and certain price.  It wasnt me talking about the best strikers in the world first, you brought up Kane, Lewandowski and Haaland not me as a comparison of good headers

Then I said we dont play that way (I know we should have it in our locker but we dont currently for the last two seasons) so it doesnt make much of a difference does it.

 

Been such a long time hasn't it since we had a striker who used his head frequently and scored from it. What makes me laugh is that we have even Tall defenders come up to try put the ball in the net and they to struggle to guide the ball, they just cant head on target.

It's pointless us having Tall guys at the club, for one reason or another is that our players are height retarded on the ball. Not that there's such a thing but we may as well be the beginning of height retardation in football the amount of times we've looked stupid messing easy headers up is shocking. Players who struggle to use height to there advantage and go as far as to header the ball wide repeatedly aiming for the inside of the posts and bar when in front of the goal and heading the ball wide (Villa the club that made Height retardation a thing) need there head shaking.. .

Its annoying when I see one of our players go to head the ball because you automatically know it's going half a foot to a foot wide to the point I just do not understand why we have a Winger system. Winger comes in, Winger crosses the ball, one of three things happen where either the Winger Crosses hits first defender, Crosses and it floats over or Crosses and a Tall player of ours send it wide by aiming for the fine looking goal. Instead of putting his head through the ball and making the ball impossible to save and that it goes through any defending player and the keeper, we just always see this soft touch of a header that resembles what a school kid could pull off.

It's really bad I think that we had Samatta, Davis and Wesley and Samatta scored more goals than the other two in the way of headers and he was shorter than KD and Wes, what was the Tally for Samatta 1 headed goal??

Watkins has scored more headers has he not and in recent years we have struggled to have players do certain things on field that clubs require or need from there players, headers being one. 

Crosses, Headers and Set pieces, we just can't seem to do owt in the way of those this season, we really need some Summer signings that rectify this I think as it's a huge part of the game.

[Nigel]

 

Villa talk logic....The longer a player is out the better he becomes!

15 months away ....This guy is going to be like blinkin superman!